[Gary1]

Hi,
Just wondered if anyone had any more information on my Grandfathers old Sax.
It has the following inscribed on it:
"Exposition Universelle De Paris 1900"
"Hors Concours"
"Membre Du Jury"
"Couesnon @ CIE"
Fournisseurs de L'armee
9ARue D'Angouleme
There is the #27 in a pineapple shape.

I would really appreciate any information, approximate date or history.

Thanks,

Gary.

 

[JayeLID]

Hello. More photos would help, this way we can give you an era based on the physical attributes of the sax.

There is not much serial # info on Couesnon online (at least not based on a quick search I just did) but I did find this, although relating to brass instruments they made:

http://brasshistory.net/Couesnon%20Dating%20List.pdf

which may or may not be of use....

then this thread here on this Forum:

Couesnon Serial numbers

As far as I am aware there is no list for Couesnon Saxophone serial numbers. My Monopole 2 alto is 92XX , which I believe is around 1958 . Does anyone else have any dates of theirs, if so post them here so we can compile it and forward it to saxpics.Leave the last 2 numbers as XXs to keep them...

www.saxontheweb.net

which isn't concluding much other than 4-digit saxes seem to be from the 50's and earlier and 5-digit ones in the vicinity of 15,XXX seem late 60's...BUR for sopranos possibly not much help/holding true.... as in that thread a user mentions a soprano, clearly archaic (keyed to Eb and down to B only...with a serial # higher than someone else who has determined their alto to be from the 50's.

 

[Chris J]

The pineapple shape is a grenade (the incendiary device). Couesnon has a very long history in supplying military music groups (Republican Guard). Compare it to the emblem of the Grenadier guards - one of the oldest regiments of the British Army. Grenadier Guards
The number in the grenade relates to the year of manufacture, so 1927

Before Couesnon took over the instrument business, it was owned by Gautrot. I think the logo is a G and M, with the G standing for Gautrot.

Couesnon was quick to update his accolades that were shown on his instruments. After 1900 they were marked with Hors Concours Exposition Universelle Paris 1900. In 1900 their instruments got a Hors Concours, Member of the Jury of Awards, in the Paris Exhibition.

Their Paris base was 94 Rue d'Andouleme. The engraving is 94, not 9A

I assume it is a soprano sax, likely low pitch but could be high pitch.

Chris

 

[JayeLID]

The pineapple shape is a grenade (the incendiary device). Couesnon has a very long history in supplying military music groups (Republican Guard). Compare it to the emblem of the Grenadier guards - one of the oldest regiments of the British Army. Grenadier Guards
The number in the grenade relates to the year of manufacture, so 1927

Before Couesnon took over the instrument business, it was owned by Gautrot. I think the logo is a G and M, with the G standing for Gautrot.

Couesnon was quick to update his accolades that were shown on his instruments. After 1900 they were marked with Hors Concours Exposition Universelle Paris 1900. In 1900 their instruments got a Hors Concours, Member of the Jury of Awards, in the Paris Exhibition.

Their Paris base was 94 Rue d'Andouleme. The engraving is 94, not 9A

I assume it is a soprano sax, likely low pitch but could be high pitch.

Chris

Ahhhh...very good, thanks for that... 👌👍...I learned something, and indeed your comment is reflected in the brass serial list which I linked to above....

Makes me wanna see a full pic even more.....if it is High Pitch.... or if it is only keyed up to Eb and/or down to B....its value is primarily personal, as opposed to market or historical...

 

[Chris J]

I have a baritone and two alto Couesnons of that era. One is a very nice gold plated 'Super Monopole' and all are LP and standard keys (Bb to F). HP ones do exist, however.

 

[PigSquealer]

The pineapple shape is a grenade (the incendiary device). Couesnon has a very long history in supplying military music groups (Republican Guard). Compare it to the emblem of the Grenadier guards - one of the oldest regiments of the British Army. Grenadier Guards
The number in the grenade relates to the year of manufacture, so 1927

Before Couesnon took over the instrument business, it was owned by Gautrot. I think the logo is a G and M, with the G standing for Gautrot.

Couesnon was quick to update his accolades that were shown on his instruments. After 1900 they were marked with Hors Concours Exposition Universelle Paris 1900. In 1900 their instruments got a Hors Concours, Member of the Jury of Awards, in the Paris Exhibition.

Their Paris base was 94 Rue d'Andouleme. The engraving is 94, not 9A

I assume it is a soprano sax, likely low pitch but could be high pitch.

Chris

Is this any relation to Couesnon Monopole ?
looks nickel plated.

Hi,
Just wondered if anyone had any more information on my Grandfathers old Sax.

Welcome to SOTW and a great first post. Additional pictures would be nice to see.
When you have a moment tell us about your sax interest.
Post here,

Admin - SOTW new member introductions ~ July 2018-

Hello, I am Bubban. I am mostly a guitar guy, but played the sax many years ago. I still love the instrument. My Dad used to play sax, but sadly has passed on. I have a couple of his instruments. The ones he used and really loved, I will definitely keep, but a couple I may need to sell...

www.saxontheweb.net

 

[Chris J]

Is this any relation to Couesnon Monopole ?
looks nickel plated.

It is related in the way it is made by the same company, but the Monopole was their top of the range version. They have a Monopole class of instrument in their 1912 catalogue.
See - Couesnon 1912, catalogue, fabrique, Mirecourt.
The Monopoles are described on catalogue pages 38 and 39.
Monopole Soprano cost 250Fr; 270Fr Nickel Plated

Look through the catalogue to see other grades of instrument
Pg 55 Scolaire Series SC for 174FR
Pg 56 Universel Series CGO for 180Fr
Pg 58 National Series BO for 190Fr
Pg 62 Armee Series GMN for 200Fr
Pg 64 Armee Series BN for 220Fr
Pg 66 Opera Series HN for 240Fr
And obviously the next grade up was Monopole

So they did a large price and grade range, at least in 1912!

They kept the Monopole name as their top grade instrument, and I think changed it to Monopole Conservatoire when they released the instruments that Marcel Mule developed with them, before he went over to Selmer to develop their instruments in 1948.

Chris

 

[AddictedToSax]

After being here on SOTW for over 10 years I'm still amazed at what a trove of information it is. Nice informative posts, Chris J.

 

[datsaxman]

Yes, quite a range of models. Not really a great price range though. Not even 2 : 1 .

 

[PigSquealer]

It is related in the way it is made by the same company, but the Monopole was their top of the range version. They have a Monopole class of instrument in their 1912 catalogue.
See - Couesnon 1912, catalogue, fabrique, Mirecourt.
The Monopoles are described on catalogue pages 38 and 39.
Monopole Soprano cost 250Fr; 270Fr Nickel Plated

So they did a large price and grade range, at least in 1912!

They kept the Monopole name as their top grade instrument, and I think changed it to Monopole Conservatoire when they released the instruments that Marcel Mule developed with them, before he went over to Selmer to develop their instruments in 1948.

Chris

What a beautiful catalog! Thanks for passing along the information. Too bad I don't read French. pictures are worth a thousand words.
I converted to dollars from Francs. At 270 Francs that's $140 USD In 1912. That's reasonably accurate to the time era. I looked it up @ 1900 was 2:1 F to USD. I wonder if that included a case. Here in the US that was an option. Somewhere around $12-$15 Depending on grade.

Cheers, PS

 

[Chris J]

Just for comparison, I own a 1934 catalogue (sadly not as ornate as the 1912 one)

In this, there are 4 grades of Saxophone
Series A, Series B, Series C Monopole and Series Monopole Conservatoire

Series A
Bis Bb
Forked Bb (long Bb xoo/xoo)
Side Bb
Side C
Ebony mouthpiece

Series B
All above plus
Automatic octave
Mother of pearl keys
Low Bb
4 rollers on keys
Ebony Mouthpiece

C Monopole
All above plus
Articulated G#
Right F# trill key
Front F key
A fifth roller on left side
Ebonite mouthpiece

Monopole Conservatoire
All above plus
A left little finger lever that closes low Eb (I think)
Right side G# trill key
Right side octave trill (I think)
Mother of pearl touch on front F
Ebonite mouthpiece by Mayeur

Unfortunately I don't have a price list

Chris

 

[Chris J]

My French is not great either, so here is a picture of the descriptions, and the diagram that goes with it. Happy to be corrected!

 

[PigSquealer]

My French is not great either, so here is a picture of the descriptions, and the diagram that goes with it. Happy to be corrected!

It's always cool to see original diagrams or catalogs. What a great post. I think the notation next to the curved sopranos says. Sibling of alto. I can just imagine these beautiful machines 100 years ago.

 

[datsaxman]

Notation says "Si b forme alto". Bb soprano, in the form of an alto.

Check the RH palm keys to see "Cadence Si b" and "Cadence Ut" for the Bb and C side keys.

 

[PigSquealer]

LOL so much for my French. Proof I don’t know squat🤣 thanks for the translation 👍

 

[datsaxman]

You bet. Sometimes easy to guess, other times not.

 

[Gary1]

Wow - thanks for all the great information & welcome!
I found your forum using Google & was amazed at the amount of information.
Yes, I believe it is a Soprano - I will try to get some more photos (it is with my cousin).
Is there an easy way to tell if it is a high pitch?
Will it appear in the 1912 or 1934 catalogs that have been mentioned?
Chris, you mentioned that there are there are 4 grades of Saxophone in the 1934 catalog - is my Grandfathers one of these?
I didn't know about Gautrot - do you know what the "M" in the logo stands for?
In searching for Gautrot I found this interesting:
"Coueson & Cie was a firm of French instrument makers which flourished in Paris from 1883 to 1950 and specialized in brass instruments.The well-established Gautrot company (A.G. Guichard started in business in 1827. He was joined by his brother in law, P.L. Gautrot in 1835) was taken over by Pierre Gautrot's son-in-law Amédée Couesnon (1850-1951) and thereafter the company was named Couesnon, Gautrot & Cie; in 1888, shortened to Couesnon & Cie."
Cheers,
Gary.
Perth, Australia.

 

[vries1]

The pineapple shape is a grenade (the incendiary device). Couesnon has a very long history in supplying military music groups (Republican Guard). Compare it to the emblem of the Grenadier guards - one of the oldest regiments of the British Army. Grenadier Guards
The number in the grenade relates to the year of manufacture, so 1927

Before Couesnon took over the instrument business, it was owned by Gautrot. I think the logo is a G and M, with the G standing for Gautrot.

Couesnon was quick to update his accolades that were shown on his instruments. After 1900 they were marked with Hors Concours Exposition Universelle Paris 1900. In 1900 their instruments got a Hors Concours, Member of the Jury of Awards, in the Paris Exhibition.

Their Paris base was 94 Rue d'Andouleme. The engraving is 94, not 9A

I assume it is a soprano sax, likely low pitch but could be high pitch.

Chris

The M in the logo stands for Marquet, as described in the French trademark (1875):

Gautrot aîné & Cie | Marques d’instruments de musique (1860-1919)

iremus.huma-num.fr

 

[Chris J]

I can just imagine these beautiful machines 100 years ago.

Let me feed your imagination!

Here are some photos of my gold plated 1928 alto

 

[PigSquealer]

Let me feed your imagination!
Here are some photos of my gold plated 1928 alto

Wow ! Beautiful example. Great photos too ?
Not often anyone posts a picture of this maker. You got me thinking about my gold plate Martin handcraft alto. I just looked it up it's a 1928. I had previously posted somewhere as a 29. So your alto and my alto it would have been comparable product in 1928.
Thanks for sharing. Im sure Gary1 is looking forward to posting his pictures.