[barry]

Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone has some advice for playing gigs with no sound guy.
How do you guys know how you are sitting in the out the front mix?

I Quite often get to the end and someone watching says 'great show but couldn't hear the sax' or 'sax was way too loud' -- #[email protected]& annoying!

Drummer is very loud and seems to get louder and louder as show progresses. Also has the annoying habit of playing louder every time I solo. Makes it hard to keep my level right.

any ideas

thanks

 

[gary]

Now I'm curious as to what you think the answer is.
There is no sound guy.
~You~ can't be out front.
But . . . .

 

[JCBigler]

You can't be on stage, and out in the house listening to the mic at the same time. The only solution is to hire a sound engineer, or have somebody that you trust sit in the audience and tell you how to adjust the balance.

 

[JCBigler]

You can't be on stage, and out in the house listening to the mix at the same time. The only solution is to hire a sound engineer, or have somebody that you trust sit in the audience and tell you how to adjust the balance.

 

[Dr G]

Put a wireless on the guitar or bass player and let them listen from out front while playing. It won't work as easily for you to do it because of the conduction issues in one's head.

 

[magical pig]

Yeah you need someone you trust in front of the mains OR get a very long xlr cable and set your mic in the middle of the room so you can hear the mix and have someone else in the band push the fader.

As for the issue with the drummer getting louder, it's simple: set your mic level so it's hotter than needed during the sound check and start playing the gig further back from the mic than normal.

 

[JCBigler]

set your mic level so it's hotter than needed during the sound check and start playing the gig further back from the mic than normal.

Wow, that's some awesome advice and a great recipe for feedback! :faceinpalm:

 

[Frank D]

Have the girlfriend of one of the band members stand out front and help you set the levels. Then turn her boyfriend down in the mix because she will always have him twice as loud as everyone else.

 

[Enviroguy]

Have the girlfriend of one of the band members stand out front and help you set the levels. Then turn her boyfriend down in the mix because she will always have him twice as loud as everyone else.

Even though I'm usually in a church setting this is similar to what what I sometimes do because our sound guys often don't hear well. (Yes, that's true)

I rig it up so I have control over my own sound while on stage. Then I have someone in the audience that is supposed to let me know if I need to adjust up or down. They just give hand signals and I make adjustments during any pause in the music. It works pretty well.

 

[magical pig]

Wow, that's some awesome advice and a great recipe for feedback! :faceinpalm:

I can assure you it works really well. Set the levels so it doesn't peak but push up the fader a little more than needed. The most comfortable gigs I've had were when I did this or I trick someone into doing it. No feedback problem... And I use a condenser mic live. Maybe using the word "hot" was confusing.

 

[clarnibass]

Maybe using the word "hot" was confusing.

Maybe that got confused with the girlfriend suggestion

Actually the only time I had to do this was in a solo concert in a place iwth no sound engineer, where I actually did ask my girlfriend (who also sometimes plays there and is organizing the series anyway) to listen from the audience. With larger groups, even if there was a sound engineer, it wasn't that uncommon for one of the group's members to go to the audience and listen. It often helped even if they weren't playing at the same time.

 

[hakukani]

If you're playing gigs with no competent sound guy, and the venue is less that 100 or so, I suggest no PA.

 

[affuman2]

For smaller gigs, I run the sound for our band. For that purpose, I use a wireless mic so I can check/tweak levels from FOH (I also occasionally walk around the venue during solos and serenade audience members...for our crowd, they love it!).

I'd think however, that the #1 way to control sound levels is to play with musicians who understand dynamics and LISTEN to the overall sound. If your drummer or guitar player has a tendency to play at 11, have that conversation with him/her during a rehearsal. At the end of the day, each of us is responsible for contributing the right sound to the group...which includes the right level. If your musician can't do that, consider finding a replacement. I'd look at it the same way as if the musician couldn't hit the right notes...

I'd say the same thing goes for vocalists, especially the inexperienced ones. Part of a vocalist's craft should be to know how to work the mic, as well as sing. I say this because of the many inexperienced vocalists who don't know how to project their voice, sing into the mic, nor understand mic dynamics, such as response areas and pickup patterns. You'll get someone who sings off-axis, forcing you to turn up the gain, which will inevitably cause feedback (probably because the drums were also playing to loudly...?)!

From experience, if you get everyone in the group to understand dynamics and sound, running the PA from the stage is much easier. If you're not the sound guru in the group, get a guitarist, bassist, or vocalist to splurge on a wireless setup and learn the basics of mixing (see the stickies in this forum for good mixing suggestions).

Hope this helps,
-A

 

[affuman2]

Also, would not recommend the "girlfriend" approach, unless he/she is also a musician or soundperson and spends a LOT of time listening to live music. Best bet is to learn the dynamics of sound (frequencies of instruments, panning, how effects affect the overall sound), or have someone in the group who does.

 

[JCBigler]

I'd think however, that the #1 way to control sound levels is to play with musicians who understand dynamics and LISTEN to the overall sound.

This only works in a totally acoustic setting. Once you introduce ANY electronic reinforcement into the mix (pun intended) anything that you hear on stage will be completely different out front. And even walking out front with you wireless mic on your saxophone will not give you an adequate perception of what the sound levels in the house are because you have your own acoustic sound now out in the room, and your own sound through bone conduction. (Maybe you could do this adequately if you were playing keytar with a wireless rig and aren't producing any acoustic sound from the instrument itself.)

 

[clarnibass]

Also, would not recommend the "girlfriend" approach, unless...

Yes... mine is a musician and often plays with me... also...

If you're playing gigs with no competent sound guy, and the venue is less that 100 or so, I suggest no PA.

I tend to agree. The only reason I was using amplification in the example above was because I was using effect pedals. Otherwise I wouldn't use amplification (or "the girlfriend").

 

[limescout]

For small gigs with no engineer, I sometimes bring a portable recorder and place it in the audience during soundcheck. After soundcheck, you can listen to the recorder and fine-tune as needed.