Modern player tip opening questions and ideas

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I play 6* Theo Wanne pieces in loud commercial bands.

In my case I still use hi-baffle/big facing mouthpieces because that's what I've always used. If I had grown up in today's environment I'd probably play the same stuff as everybody else.

swperry1 said:

Just play whatever mouthpiece works best for you. It really doesn’t matter what you’re playing as long as you’re happy with the result.

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I’m not a big name player. I don’t matter with regards to this discussion. I’m not looking for confirmation bias. I started a conversation topic on a discussion board. Thanks though for your encouragement.

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SMLToneKing said:

Let’s start with 7* or .105 as “middle”, for discussion purposes. Do y’all know of any major players today playing relatively small openings? Say .80-.90? I recently listened to a master class where Chris Potter mentioned he plays a pretty middle of the road setup, ie .110 tip with Jazz Select 3S reeds. All of the other heavy hitters that read about today seem to use at least a .105 opening where as many in the past had a much wider disparity in their tip opening choices. I seems today with modern mics, sound boards, iPads on stage, etc. it is not necessary for volume alone. I think some of our heroes have proven it’s not needed for sound shaping either. Macho mentality perhaps? Echo chamber myth?
Maybe, this could be the answer to more people developing instantly recognizable voices on the instrument like those that preceded us.
Thoughts?

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It's not just the tip opening. It's the facing curve, amount and type of baffle, and chamber size, as well as tip. The reeds also make a big difference.

The New Brilhart Ebolin 7 tenor I was able to get early access to one at sweetwater and it was a beautiful piece very 50-60’s fat sound that I just love on tenor.

swperry1 said:

I wasn’t trying to confirm any biases or encourage anyone. I addressed your question: Play the mouthpiece that works: it’s what the big name players do too. 🤦‍♂️

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Not my point or question. Let me give more context to my thoughts.
The latest Downbeat magazine has a blindfold test in the back. Dave Liebman listened to 9 players on recent recordings and had guess who they were. Chris Potter, Joe Lovano, Eric Alexander were three of the 9 included.
Liebman said Chris Potter sounded like Sonny Rollins but he didn’t know the tune. I guess for many, that would be the ultimate compliment. He immediately knew it was Lovano. He thought the guitar was Frisell at first; but, he knew it was Lovano. THAT is the ultimate compliment. I love Potter, I love Lovano so no shade thrown at Potter here. I totally love his playing.
I’d like to discuss how more modern players develop a recognizable sound concept. The tip opening idea was just one of my initial thoughts on the subject.
If a giant like Potter is not recognized immediately by another of his peers, in my opinion, this needs to be given more thought. Not just play what makes you happy.

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I agree that it seems most of the modern tenor players sit in that .105-.110 range and not the .085-.090 range. I always thought it was because they played so much and had such strong chops that it felt comfortable to them.

swperry1 said:

You should’ve been more clear in your initial post because outside of my response the others are just posting what they play on…so it would appear none of us understand exactly what it is you’re getting at then. Yet you chose me to engage with. You can stop anytime, I wouldn’t have commented if it had been clear this is just another useless nobody sounds unique anymore thread. There’s all kinds of threads already regarding recognizable tones or the lack thereof in recent years. Hit the archives.

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I asked several questions in my initial post. You answered none. I presented an idea of thought. You gave no thought therefore you had no idea. Rather than trying to tell me what you think I need. Read the post as I wrote it, discuss what I presented, or chose not to. That’s fine.

Never mind. Welcome to the forum.

I’d agree that facing curve has a lot to do with. I’ve preferred 6, 6* openings but I found a .110 that plays like a smaller tip.
The longer curve let’s you kind of close up the mouthpiece.
‘I’ve done the thing with set my embouchure then touch the opening between he reed and tip tail with my tongue. It seems it’s probably closer to a 6 or so by the way it feels. Its not that I’m using that much pressure on my lower lip but I use a 2 strong or 2 1/2 soft and I guess any pressure at all would bend it slightly.
I still prefer a 6 but i can probably play a little louder with the .110. It’s not as focused but it works well with my tenor.

SMLToneKing said:

Chris Potter mentioned he plays a pretty middle of the road setup, ie .110 tip with Jazz Select 3S reeds. All of the other heavy hitters that read about today seem to use at least a .105 opening

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Potter and the other 'heavy hitters' you mentioned are mostly playing Link-style mpcs with a low rollover baffle. It turns out that a 7 to 8 (.100 - .110) tip is a favorite tip opening range for that type of mpc. Admittedly, some players prefer a 6 or 6* on a Link, so it's largely up to the individual. Those who are playing larger tips, in the .115 to .125 range are usually playing on med to high baffle mpcs, where the more open tip helps warm the sound of what would otherwise be a very bright (even shrill) sound on a smaller tip.

I'm not sure from your question/statement whether or not you consider a 7 or 7* a fairly large tip. I would consider it medium.

hakukani said:

It's not just the tip opening. It's the facing curve, amount and type of baffle, and chamber size, as well as tip. The reeds also make a big difference.

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This is 100% spot on. The other thing is , regardless of what others play or may say, you never know what will work for you until you get out there and play it in the real world through a sound system and such. I have heard great local pros playing on 7* pieces and on 9 opening pieces, it is very personal.

I don’t think that it is worth discussing modern vs classic players. That would require more definition. Besides it has already been said concerning tip and tip openings. The tip opening is more about the air. The reed strength is more about the embouchure strength. If you are looking to find players who played on small tips openings (and it sounds like tenor) you should look at Joe Henderson (not modern but who cares, it Joe Henderson) and Steve Grossman, whom many forget but none should.

I got to play Steve Grossmans horn once. Probably wasn’t the best idea, but at that time it was a short shank Dukoff 5* with a soft reed. It didn’t feel uncomfortable for me because I had one, still do, but rarely play it.

SMLToneKing said:

Let’s start with 7* or .105 as “middle”, for discussion purposes. Do y’all know of any major players today playing relatively small openings? Say .80-.90? I recently listened to a master class where Chris Potter mentioned he plays a pretty middle of the road setup, ie .110 tip with Jazz Select 3S reeds. All of the other heavy hitters that read about today seem to use at least a .105 opening where as many in the past had a much wider disparity in their tip opening choices. I seems today with modern mics, sound boards, iPads on stage, etc. it is not necessary for volume alone. I think some of our heroes have proven it’s not needed for sound shaping either. Macho mentality perhaps? Echo chamber myth?
Maybe, this could be the answer to more people developing instantly recognizable voices on the instrument like those that preceded us.
Thoughts?

Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with modern mics, boards, interfaces, or plug-ins, and has everything to do with the response of the horn to the player. Looking only at tip opening is simplistic.

I don’t know what you are trying to stir up with the “macho” comment. Check out the sounds of some of the women players, such as Melissa Aldana, and get educated on tenor tone.

JL said:

Potter and the other 'heavy hitters' you mentioned are mostly playing Link-style mpcs with a low rollover baffle. It turns out that a 7 to 8 (.100 - .110) tip is a favorite tip opening range for that type of mpc. Admittedly, some players prefer a 6 or 6* on a Link, so it's largely up to the individual. Those who are playing larger tips, in the .115 to .125 range are usually playing on med to high baffle mpcs, where the more open tip helps warm the sound of what would otherwise be a very bright (even shrill) sound on a smaller tip.

I'm not sure from your question/statement whether or not you consider a 7 or 7* a fairly large tip. I would consider it medium.

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The very first sentence in my post says let’s begin with .105 being medium. I don’t where you get that I said it’s large.