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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Going to be moving from a '54 Martin to a mid-60's VI bari. The Martin likes large chambers.

Do VI's prefer more of a medium chamber for intonation? Or do they care? Need to pick up a piece or two for the VI and don't know whether large chambers might be a problem at all, etc.

Thanks:)
-Mark M.
 

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Berg Larsen used to be popular on the Selmer bari, but it would depend on what kind of music you play and what kind of sound you're looking for. I don't know of any intonation problems with them.
 

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Berg works OK for me. But I like that big Berg sound on bari.
Like the man says, it really depends on what you are looking for.


dsm
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah I was just wondering about, generally speaking, chamber size in regards to intonation. On the American horns it's pretty much a deal-breaker if you don't have a large chamber mouthpiece.

But I do also appreciate recommendations as to mouthpieces known to play nicely with VI bari's. A big factor in what I end up with will be what's available. But most likely I'll try a few mouthpieces, perhaps a Berg just for yuks. I tend to end up with rollover pieces or short baffles but anticipate trying a range of mouthpieces with a new horn. Thanks:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Berg Larsen used to be popular on the Selmer bari, but it would depend on what kind of music you play and what kind of sound you're looking for. I don't know of any intonation problems with them.
Vis a vis recommendations and what I play, it's quite a range, including jazz-ish through bar rock. My own stuff I record at home is more sedate and subtle. So pretty broad spectrum. I've had a number of Lambersons of the darker shades, brightest being a 7SB which I had the longest. I like that piece a lot, 'though for some reason most of his pieces have been chirpy for me unless I'm playing all the time. I know that's at least half me but the RPC's I've had by comparison were not this way - one or two of his rollover pieces - I like them a lot too but definitely more work to play. So I'm happy in that range, but interested also in exploring some other pieces.

Right now I'm playing a Vandoren modified by Eric G. with double chamber and opened to .115. The RPC's and Lambo's have been .115 and .120.

Actually toying with the idea of a Durga 3 (I'm selling a lot of random stuff right now so cash is swirling around momentarily:) - anyone here play a Durga 3 on a VI Bb bari by any chance?
 

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Yeah I was just wondering about, generally speaking, chamber size in regards to intonation. On the American horns it's pretty much a deal-breaker if you don't have a large chamber mouthpiece.

But I do also appreciate recommendations as to mouthpieces known to play nicely with VI bari's. A big factor in what I end up with will be what's available. But most likely I'll try a few mouthpieces, perhaps a Berg just for yuks. I tend to end up with rollover pieces or short baffles but anticipate trying a range of mouthpieces with a new horn. Thanks:)
We get it. But you have to get the fact that the question simply does not come up vis-à-vis a Selmer baritone so there is no answer. You might find mouthpieces that are so whacked out that they play too sharp or too flat to be usable but I don't know of any legitimate mouthpieces that would be like that on a Selmer, assuming excellent mechanical condition. The first thing I would do is play all my existing mouthpieces on the Selmer to see if the mouthpiece question can be quickly answered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
We get it. But you have to get the fact that the question simply does not come up vis-à-vis a Selmer baritone so there is no answer. You might find mouthpieces that are so whacked out that they play too sharp or too flat to be usable but I don't know of any legitimate mouthpieces that would be like that on a Selmer, assuming excellent mechanical condition. The first thing I would do is play all my existing mouthpieces on the Selmer to see if the mouthpiece question can be quickly answered.
The inference being VI's or Selmers are not so fussy about chamber size, yes? I'll certainly play my current pieces but I actually am interested in changing mouthpieces anyway especially if I'm not constrained to the biggest chambers I can find. And the situation is, as I'm sure most are familiar with, I don't have the horn in my hands yet so I'm left with thinking about everything rather than being able to do about:) Thanks much...
 

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A link STM would be a nice option IMO.
The EB ones with the tip opening in top of shank have a more prominent baffle and play better than current models.
Florida USA models and no USA models are also good.
The no USA’s seem to be a litttle darker in my experience, but I had a no USA 5 tip opened to .110 by Brian Powell which gained a slightly higher baffle in the process, and its a terrific piece now.
A Berg 2 or 3 chamber would also be a nice option if you can find a nice one.
I know a guy who uses a Vandoren B9 on his Low Bb VI and he has a nice early Pepper Adams sound with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Definitely of interest. How consistent are they? I guess if it wasn't great it would just be a matter of facing such as you had done. I've sent several pieces to Eric G. and Brian, trust them pretty well with whatever. Prices seem to vary - any consensus on a reasonable price for a good EB (or FLA's)? I've not owned or played any Links but always felt like I owed it to myself to live with one for a while.

A link STM would be a nice option IMO.
The EB ones with the tip opening in top of shank have a more prominent baffle and play better than current models.
Florida USA models and no USA models are also good.
The no USA’s seem to be a litttle darker in my experience, but I had a no USA 5 tip opened to .110 by Brian Powell which gained a slightly higher baffle in the process, and its a terrific piece now.
A Berg 2 or 3 chamber would also be a nice option if you can find a nice one.
I know a guy who uses a Vandoren B9 on his Low Bb VI and he has a nice early Pepper Adams sound with it.
 

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Hard to say price wise.
Wider tips command higher prices.
EB in a 5-6 tip probably around $400.
No USA and USA pieces go for anything from $500 to a lot more in 7-8 tips.
You can often get lucky on fleabay on the EB in smaller tips.
Mine main pieces are an old Masterlink 4**** opened to 110 and a Florida no USA also opened to .115.
I have a modern STM with an added baffle also but I prefer the others.
I don’t have a VI though.
Just a Yamaha 61 and a the Martin and a Conn 11m.
 

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Lawtons have always been a favourite on Mark Vi Bari's - Bruce Johnstone played one for years before changing to a Drake, not sure what he's playing now. I have a Low Bb Mark VI from 1958, and have played a Pillinger Berg Larson type piece on, a Vandoren V16 B7, and most recently an RPC 120B, all worked well with no intonation problems at all, the latter (the RPC) was the one that worked best for me.
 

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Going to be moving from a '54 Martin to a mid-60's VI bari. The Martin likes large chambers.

Do VI's prefer more of a medium chamber for intonation? Or do they care? Need to pick up a piece or two for the VI and don't know whether large chambers might be a problem at all, etc.

Thanks:)
-Mark M.
Hi Mark,

For years I used a rubber Berg 115/0 on my Mark VI then I switched to a rubber Link then to a Barone Hollywood. They were all different size chambers and they all worked great. You may just have to experiment a bit until you find the right piece for you. Yanagisawa makes a very good piece that never got popular so you may want to try one of those and I recommend them. Good luck in your search. Phil Barone
 

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Selmer mouthpieces work best for me. All the others seem like the shank is so darn long I have to shove them almost past the cork.
Baritone sax is an ugly enough sound with using a Berg.
 

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There is an interesting set of measurements on Marten Postma’s site http://sax.mpostma.nl

Go to measurements- bore profiles-baritone. What you see is that the truncated cone volume is relatively small on Selmers, even more so on the modern ones. The difference of 5cc between The Martin and Mk VI would translate to having to push the mouthpiece roughly 20 mm further on the cork. My guess is that a double chamber (or traditional large chamber/pickle barrel) mouthpiece would have to be pushed on really really far on a Mk VI, like @whaler mentioned.
 

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Selmer baritones are pretty mouthpiece friendly. Everyone tends to recommend their own personal favorite. I've had good luck with old slant Links. Drake is terrific. Lawtons are works of art but they all play different. Good Lawtons are great. If intonation is your main concern, the new Morgan GM is the best I've ever played for pitch. I did a demo for the folks at Morgan on Youtube. Check it out:

https://youtu.be/BjMcizsuBtg
 

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What saxtek ^^ said. Randy took the words right out of my mouth.... Mark VI baris are quite mouthpiece friendly. Honestly, I have yet to find a MP that doesn't "play nice" on my low Bb VI.

FWIW, I own both a Committee III and a VI. They both get about the same of playing time--and I'm primarily a bari player. The go-to pieces I have on bari are the same for both horns.

Interestingly enough, the Martin came with a scroll shank E or something like that. I haven't owned a classical bari piece since university. Needless to say, now I use it on both when I need to....
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thank you all so much. I hope I can figure out how to eventually try all of these, or as many as I can. Great that VI's are friendly to a range of pieces - will be a welcome change:) I've been reading about each of these and will have to get the horn in my hands and play it a bit to get a feel for how I sound on it and what kind of piece I need. When I first got my Martin I (not knowing) bought some medium chamber pieces and enjoyed them until I realized how far out I had to pull them to be close to in tune, like 3/8" of cork in the mouthpiece.

Vries1, that pretty much confirms what I imagined and I anticipate the double-chamber pieces I have will need to go very far onto the cork and possibly still not be a great match. I'm actually looking forward to trying some new mouthpieces and as I said am in a buying/selling mode with a lot of old hifi equipment and stuff I realized I had lying around unused. Fun little moment - a new bari on its way and a no-pressure period of trying new pieces. Keeping my Martin around for the near future 'til I see how the VI sorts out and whether I want to keep two or not.

I usually find one piece that works and stick with it for a long time so once in a while it's fun to do the kind of multiple blind dates with different mouthpieces for a while to see what's out there:)
 

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When I first got my Martin I (not knowing) bought some medium chamber pieces and enjoyed them until I realized how far out I had to pull them to be close to in tune, like 3/8" of cork in the mouthpiece.
If you still have these pieces they should play fine on your new Selmer.
FWIW, I played a Florida Otto Link STM on my Mark VI bari. It worked fine in almost every situation, except classical quartets. For that I used the stock Soloist that came with the horn.
Have fun and enjoy your new toy.
And keep the Martin!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
If you still have these pieces they should play fine on your new Selmer.
FWIW, I played a Florida Otto Link STM on my Mark VI bari. It worked fine in almost every situation, except classical quartets. For that I used the stock Soloist that came with the horn.
Have fun and enjoy your new toy.
And keep the Martin!
Most long gone, probably a couple to dig out. But I get the horn Friday evening so I am very psyched:)
 

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I'm no pro by any stretch, but I've found that older hard rubber pieces play best for me on my late 70's low Bb Mk VI. I got a Link Tone Edge 6* that really disappointed as did a Berg 105/2/SMS. Got a Meyer 9 that plays great, but needs either a longer neck or half an inch less shank to play in tune on the VI and a Dave Jary "Metal Killer" that pretty much doesn't (but I have one of his alto pieces that's absolutely a stellar player.) A Rousseau 5R plays ok while a JDX8 didn't move me like I expected it to.
So now that I've laid out what doesn't work for me, what have I found that I really do like? Basically older Bundy HRs and similar streamlined pieces with the baffle. I have a Bundy 3 HR that was refaced by Ralph Morgan that's a joy to play. Other pieces that give me the sound I want: an older King 4 HR that really brings out the lows and puts out a surprising amount of volume when pushed. A Dick Paladino MO that's awesome. Even Conn Precision 2s and 3s play well for me. I have 2 different Kessler Customs that seem like nothing special but I won't play true legit on anything else. Great all-around players: a Keilwerth/Wagner streamline 8 (fantastic piece, hard to find for bari), Couf Artist 5*R - you really can't go wrong with these. For shear volume, I have a custom faced Runyon 5 Custom and an Absolute 6, a long shank piece made of Delrin with a Berg-like baffle that's a hoot to play.
It really does come down to what you play and what you want your sound to be. For me, I don't need to peel paint. Bari is my primary sax and I play it because I love what I can do with the lower end of the horn's range. It's just a very soulful horn and the best part is, with a lung condition it's still a very easy horn to play the way I want with the sound I want.
 
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