[J-Moen]

So, I need a little advice/estimates of whats coming my way.

As I had left military service in 2017, I moved back to Colorado, and of course, my two altos (P. Mauriat and CE Winds) I had with me were moved along with me. Then I reacquainted myself with my soprano and tenor that were in Wyoming in storage.

The Tenor and P. Mauriat alto had been played and used somewhat regularly, and they are both in superb condition, and set out on stands since I purchased my home. However, the soprano and back-up alto have been resting in their cases, and I had not done any inspections on them -- Until today...

I found that my CE Winds Saxello had suffered some damage to the bell, as you can see here:

I have seen a few similar scenarios, and I don't think I trust myself to fix it, unless there is a rather simple method with simple regular tools (doubtful). Is this an expensive fix?

Additionally, here is one of a couple issues on the CE Winds Alto:

The neck screw was sheered completely off during shipment:

And finally, here is a video (albeit not a great one) that shows that some of the keys are being extremely sticky and slow in action. I also believe the G key is bent:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AFrfDy1b8eCmtSW78

Just want to know if anyone can give me some advice on how to self repair or how many limbs I need to sell to get these into the repair shop.

 

[Dr G]

Additionally, here is one of a couple issues on the CE Winds Alto:

The neck screw was sheered completely off during shipment:

View attachment 257606

The fix is to center drill the screw and insert an Easy Out - a quick and inexpensive fix. I have a set in my tool chest. Doesn't every one?

FWIW, I'd leave the bell on your sop as-is. It is a cosmetic thing that is likely to happen again in its life - won't affect the playing, just the selling.

 

[J-Moen]

The fix is to center drill the screw and insert an Easy Out - a quick and inexpensive fix. I have a set in my tool chest. Doesn't every one?

FWIW, I'd leave the bell on your sop as-is. It is a cosmetic thing that is likely to happen again in its life - won't affect the playing, just the selling.

Thanks G,

I actually do have easy outs, just was a little worried about muffing up the finish. I suppose I could just purchase another thumbscrew as well (but i have found it impossible to get the same matching finish).

 

[Dr G]

Thanks G,

I actually do have easy outs, just was a little worried about muffing up the finish. I suppose I could just purchase another thumbscrew as well (but i have found it impossible to get the same matching finish).

Do you have a Dremel? If you can cut a slot in the screw, you can back it out with a small screwdriver.

Won't you have to get another screw regardless? Does the lyre screw have a matching thread?

 

[J-Moen]

Do you have a Dremel? If you can cut a slot in the screw, you can back it out with a small screwdriver.

Won't you have to get another screw regardless? Does the lyre screw have a matching thread?

No, I don't have a dremel. I have heard cases of using some sort of sticky compound to stick to the screw, and then just spinning it out, which I was thinking of trying. But I suppose the easy out is much simpler. And Yes, I was planning to replace it and sadly, the lyre screw never came with the horn, so a full replacement is needed.

 

[datsaxman]

I expect the screws have the same pitch, but that the neck screw is longer.
Very similar looking fitting on my Phil Barone.

Kroil to loosen it up, then try tapping the screw in the "unscrewing" direction.
It may just be sitting in there loose. Use a small screwdriver and smaller hammer.

Kroil is great. WD40 or light oil if you don't have the good stuff.

dsm

 

[lesacks]

No, I don't have a dremel. I have heard cases of using some sort of sticky compound to stick to the screw, and then just spinning it out, which I was thinking of trying. But I suppose the easy out is much simpler. And Yes, I was planning to replace it and sadly, the lyre screw never came with the horn, so a full replacement is needed.

As an alternative, I used a plane old electric skrewdriver with a very fine drill bit. Never touched the sides!

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...n-neck-screw&p=3934740&viewfull=1#post3934740

 

[J-Moen]

I looked at my easy outs, and the smallest one I have is basically the entire width of the screw, so thats a no go.

I expect the screws have the same pitch, but that the neck screw is longer.
Very similar looking fitting on my Phil Barone.

Kroil to loosen it up, then try tapping the screw in the "unscrewing" direction.
It may just be sitting in there loose. Use a small screwdriver and smaller hammer.

Kroil is great. WD40 or light oil if you don't have the good stuff.

dsm

I did just give this a try, but it seems to be wedged in pretty tight, didn't move a bit.

As an alternative, I used a plane old electric skrewdriver with a very fine drill bit. Never touched the sides!

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...n-neck-screw&p=3934740&viewfull=1#post3934740

I just looked through my drill bits, and the smallest I have is a wood only drill bit.

Looks like I'm off to the hardware store soon.

 

[Dr G]

I did just give this a try, but it seems to be wedged in pretty tight, didn't move a bit.

Penetrating lubricants are only effective when the problem is due to corrosion. If the screw was indeed sheared, you might be dealing with some deformation of the threads.

 

[simso]

Just use a normal drill and drill from the lyre end of the screw not the broken end, it will self wind itself out, pretty basic repair and very common on saxes

 

[PigSquealer]

Just use a normal drill and drill from the lyre end of the screw not the broken end, it will self wind itself out, pretty basic repair and very common on saxes

+1 He just needs to be careful it goes in straight. I insert a small brass tube in the hole to shield the sides and guide the bit straight.
The bit in this picture is .093 the tube is .125 OD
I have also had limited luck stripping a piece of wire or extension cord. Wrapping it around the screw . Pulling tight moving the screw small increments until I can grab the head. Pull-turn-relax-back-repeat. There is plenty of space in the gap. Be careful not to lift the instrument by the screw...don't bend the tenon.
Going from the face side I use a left hand bit (counterclockwise). Sometimes the screw will back out while drilling.

 

[clarnibass]

These almost never corrode, so penetrating oil is usually not needed. Most of the time (almost always really) they are not stuck at all and very mild force is needed. As suggested, without any special tools, drill from the other (non-broken) end with a regular drill and it's likely that it will spin out. Or even less risky (and assuming you don't have a left hand drill), from the broken end. It might be loose enough that it would come out. Just be careful not to damage the threads (either with a sleeve as shown above or by just being careful).

The easiest method that I usually use is to cut a slot and screw it out with a screwdriver. Takes seconds with a micromotor that I do that even before using a drill, but it does require specific tools.

 

[J-Moen]

I'll be headed out to the hardware store today to get things for this (smaller metal drill bits was my primary plan). Does anyone recommend anything else? Maybe a smaller set of easy outs? Couldn't believe my smallest was the complete size of the thumbscrew.

For the other issues with the possibly bent key/slow key action on the alto, I checked the springs and dropped some oil, and haven't seen much improvement. Any ideas on this issue, or tools I may need?

 

[PigSquealer]

I'll be headed out to the hardware store today to get things for this (smaller metal drill bits was my primary plan). Does anyone recommend anything else? Maybe a smaller set of easy outs? Couldn't believe my smallest was the complete size of the thumbscrew.

For the other issues with the possibly bent key/slow key action on the alto, I checked the springs and dropped some oil, and haven't seen much improvement. Any ideas on this issue, or tools I may need?

If you didn't make it to the hardware store. There is two harbor freight tool stores in your area. A generic HSS drill index will work. Full box is $11 with online coupon. 1/16 to 1/2". Pick up a package of pipe cleaners and a small can of Ronson lighter fluid.
My guess is the keys are sticking from dirt. There is a wad of fuzz still on the end of adjacent post. I'm not familiar with assembly of that particular instrument. You're going to need to release the springs and get the hinge rod out. Be extra careful the tip of the screwdriver it is not too thick. No Splitting the end of the hinge rod. Wipe the hinge rod off with lighter fluid. Clean the tubes with the pipe cleaner soaked and lighter fluid. Sparingly oil and reassemble.

On the tenon screw.
I came up with another long shot today. Ground off the sharp edge and rounded the corner of a razor blade. Just for safety.
Pressing firm it moved just fine.

 

[turf3]

As to the little bend in the bell lip, just bend it back by hand.

 

[J-Moen]

If you didn't make it to the hardware store. There is two harbor freight tool stores in your area. A generic HSS drill index will work. Full box is $11 with online coupon. 1/16 to 1/2". Pick up a package of pipe cleaners and a small can of Ronson lighter fluid.
My guess is the keys are sticking from dirt. There is a wad of fuzz still on the end of adjacent post. I'm not familiar with assembly of that particular instrument. You're going to need to release the springs and get the hinge rod out. Be extra careful the tip of the screwdriver it is not too thick. No Splitting the end of the hinge rod. Wipe the hinge rod off with lighter fluid. Clean the tubes with the pipe cleaner soaked and lighter fluid. Sparingly oil and reassemble.

On the tenon screw.
I came up with another long shot today. Ground off the sharp edge and rounded the corner of a razor blade. Just for safety.
Pressing firm it moved just fine.

I haven't gone to the hardware store yet (work got in the way yesterday). But I do like harbor freight, and I'll probably just order up that set from online to avoid going out.

Thanks for this advice. I've actually got pipe cleaners and lighter fluid at home (and a pipe lol) and I'm going to do some hard cleaning today and see if I can fix up this action issue. Thanks for the advice and I think I can get this thing working great again quick.

 

[J-Moen]

As to the little bend in the bell lip, just bend it back by hand.

That was my original intention, but it is silver plated, and I didn't want to make any cracks, Probably will just be following Dr. G's advice and leaving it as is

 

[turf3]

Silver plate is pretty soft and forgiving. I doubt you'll have any trouble. Nickel, now that's the stuff that'll crack when bent.

 

[PigSquealer]

That was my original intention, but it is silver plated, and I didn't want to make any cracks, Probably will just be following Dr. G's advice and leaving it as is

Best just to leave the Bell alone. Here's a repair video. Fair warning it takes lots of practice to perfect his technique.

One drill bit set I have on hand is .040 to .250 HSS better selection of the smaller sizes. Sorry I don't remember where I picked this one up at.

 

[turf3]

If you want some actual good twist drill sets, go to MSC or McMaster-Carr.