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Why does my sound not come through the board at gigs? I'm using a Sure Beta 98H, through a couple pedals(octave Boss OC-2 to a Line 6 Delay) and out to the board. This set up works at rehearsals with phantom power in front of the pedals, but at gigs I try to get phantom power through the board with no result( I do not phantom in front of my pedals)s, therefore I end up scrapping effects for the gig. Do I need to have phantom power in front of my pedals always? I had success with a direct box at a gig, so I bought one, but I can't get mine to work for me at other gigs. What connection am I missing? I'm very new to mics & pedals. I need answers please!
 

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Yes you need phantom power to the mic BEFORE the pedals... they should not carry it at all.

Does the board have an FX loop for your channel?
The pedals could be connected to that, or you need to buy a stand-alone phantom power box (you can get them for under$50)
 

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Pedals work with direct sound like guitars going directly in. These are line instruments and the volume is plenty. Microphones produce a much lower level which is why you are having a problem. You need to boost the signal with a mic preamp.
 

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Any experience with a direct box? I used one at a gig where the sound guy plug me in. It worked great. I got the phantom power needed from the board.(?) The volume was excellent too. The next time i tried it at another club, no sound at all. What gives?
 

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What gives is that you cannot rely on in-house audio gear to solve your technical issues. Buy a preamp for the reasons already explained. Then, everytime it will work.
 

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Any experience with a direct box? I used one at a gig where the sound guy plug me in. It worked great. I got the phantom power needed from the board.(?) The volume was excellent too. The next time i tried it at another club, no sound at all. What gives?
DI Boxes are great for a number of situations, but they have nothing to do with your current problem. I am not familiar with your particular pedals, but if you are using a 1/4" output from your pedals to the board, a DI box can correct potential impedance problems which occassionally occur in such setups. The end result is a slightly improved sound quality.

Phantom works by sending a slight current through the ground wire found in XLR cables. This current travels up to your condensor mic and allows it to work. A condensor with no power will not produce sound. Your pedals do not carry the extra ground wire in between their inputs and outputs. Therefor, phantom power can travel from the board to the first pedal it reaches, but once it gets there, the power hits a break in the circuit and cannot continue to the microphone. Once again, a condensor mic can not operate without a power source. When you practice, you have a phantom box in between the microphone and the effect pedals. The phantom box is able to send power directly to the microphone, the mic is able to work properly and sends its signal through the Phantom Box, into the effect pedals, and out into your mixing board and PA. So you have several options in order to avoid problems at gigs.

1) Bring the phantom box with you. Hook up everything as you would during your rehersals.

2) Swap out your condensor mic for a dynamic mic. Dynamic microphones do not require power in order to operate. The Shure SM57 and SM58 are still the industry standards in dynamic mics, but there are cheaper alternatives that are every bit as effective. If you are looking to save some money, I would look into the Sennheiser 815S or those Samson SM58 clones that come in a 3-pack. Both options are very cheap, and easy to replace if the mic becomes lost, damaged, or stolen.

FWIW, I would not worry about purchasing a mic preamp. The pedals have preamps built into them, and if you are getting an adequate level during rehersals, then you already have all the signal you need. Adding another preamp into a two pedal system can potentially cause more feedback issues than what you have now. Besides, any soundguy worth his salt will know how to bring you up through the PA board to keep you balanced with the rest of the instrumentation. Just make sure that you are powering that condensor mic properly, and you shouldn't have a problem with your rig.
 

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2) Swap out your condensor mic for a dynamic mic. Dynamic microphones do not require power in order to operate. The Shure SM57 and SM58 are still the industry standards in dynamic mics, but there are cheaper alternatives that are every bit as effective. If you are looking to save some money, I would look into the Sennheiser 815S or those Samson SM58 clones that come in a 3-pack. Both options are very cheap, and easy to replace if the mic becomes lost, damaged, or stolen.
THIS! Don't use condensor mic's live unless it is a tiny-diaphgram clip-on like the AKG C419. Its just trouble.

Also, ditch your pedals for one of these:

 

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THIS! Don't use condensor mic's live unless it is a tiny-diaphgram clip-on like the AKG C419. Its just trouble.
Well, I'd say that condensers are more trouble if you are playing in loud bands in tight places. As long as one understands that a condenser is a bit more sensitive than a dynamic mic, and as long as the OP, and the corresponding soundguy, know how to run their gains, the condenser should work fine.
 

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Well, I'd say that condensers are more trouble if you are playing in loud bands in tight places. As long as one understands that a condenser is a bit more sensitive than a dynamic mic, and as long as the OP, and the corresponding soundguy, know how to run their gains, the condenser should work fine.
I agree to disagree.
 

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Pedals, condenser mics, phantom power....

Why make it all so complicated? My suggestion is get a good dynamic mic (RE20, Senn 421) and plug it into the PA. Leave all those pedals and special effects to the guitar players. A real horn player doesn't need them. :) :)
 

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pedals, condenser mics, phantom power....

Why make it all so complicated? My suggestion is get a good dynamic mic (re20, senn 421) and plug it into the pa. Leave all those pedals and special effects to the guitar players. A real horn player doesn't need them. :) :)
ftl.
 

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I use condenser microphones all the time for live sound. I use large diaphragm and small diaphragm condensers for instruments and even some of my high end handheld wireless vocal microphones are condenser capsules. The Neumann KMS105 is a very popular hardwired vocal mic used on everything from small clubs and cabarets to stadium tours.

The key is to 1) have the sound system set up right in the first place, proper placement of speakers with the right dispersion pattern and b) have a thorough understanding of sound systems and your system's gain structure.
 

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My suggestion is get a good dynamic mic (RE20, Senn 421) and plug it into the PA. Leave all those pedals and special effects to the guitar players. A real horn player doesn't need them.
My suggestion is to hook up your gear right the first time. The way the OP has his signal chain set up is NOT the proper way to use effects units, and is only contributed to by his lack of understanding of sound systems and signal flow in general.
 

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I use condenser microphones all the time for live sound. I use large diaphragm and small diaphragm condensers for instruments and even some of my high end handheld wireless vocal microphones are condenser capsules. The Neumann KMS105 is a very popular hardwired vocal mic used on everything from small clubs and cabarets to stadium tours.

The key is to 1) have the sound system set up right in the first place, proper placement of speakers with the right dispersion pattern and b) have a thorough understanding of sound systems and your system's gain structure.
:thumbrig: Condensor mics + correct speaker placement + thorough understanding of gain structure + graphic equalizer = killer sound. Yes, this type of rig is more difficult to set up, but, IMHO, it's worth it in the end.

JC, I can only hope to make it out to Tulsa sometime in order to hear one of your shows. It seems that you pay a lot of attention to detail, and that's cool. :)
 
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