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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone, I know a few of the people on the site here endorse eric satterlees mdrs system, and I think jerryjamz works on occasion with them promoting this item,but was actually wondering from those that own or have purchased his dent removal tools, what actually are there limitations. I read a lot of comments that you can remove 90 percent of the dents from an item but what are the 10 percent dents that you cant remove. I have just purchased his essential shop setup, and should have it in about 2 weeks was curious to its actual limitations
Thanks
Steve
 

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Simso,

Try doing a search here under MDRS or magneticdentremovalsystem. I have posted information in this regard several times which I think might help you. As Carl said, it's a money maker and time saver, but isn't always a substitute for using conventional dent removal methods in some instances and on some instruments. Make sure you read the safety section of the website thoroughly. ;) If you have any questions, Carl, myself and a few others here will be glad to assist you.
 

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I think of it as just another tool in my arsenal. It is far from able to do 90% of the dents on a sax, but it is a valuable asset. The more ways I have to attack a problem the better. This is another way to attack some dents.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Okay did a good search and found a few things, yes I am aware how dangerous they can actually be in regards to getting piched by a moving mass, and I can see how it wouldnt be to hard if you were not thinking, to be able to break your hand. I work with electro magnetic fields at the moment of about 4000 gauss, I belive the rare earth magnets in erics setup is something like 7000 gauss, very dangerous and needs to be treated with respect.
Okay Ive seen what the setup can do on the bottom bow of a sax and this is whats sold me, for this time saving purpose alone and the quality of the finished job I could justify the price of the items. That being said Im getting the understanding that like a dent ball on a rod your raking the surface, so if your raking the surface from above then clearly posts ect will stop the action, this I guess would be its first limitation. The second limitation would be it requires a large mass to be controlled by the magnetic field to be able to create a clamping effect, so would this mean that its no good on things like french horn tubes ect, or is there a knack in increasing the internal mass.
Ive purchased the 1.5 and his heavy duty 2" mdrs units. He also advertises a rat system "whats the difference".
I Actually feel like a kid waiting for his newest toys.
I was originally going to buy the dent eraser from curt "music medic" but Ive been watching his site for about 3 months now and the item has never been listed as available, it was only after doing a generic search here that I got links to erics mdrs site
Look forward and would appreciate any help from people who have used or own these units, tips tricks ect
Thanks
Steve
 

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I agree with what Saxdaddy wrote.

Re the clamping effect:
I have never had a problem with it, but then I do only saxes.

It is not only the clamping effect that does the job. I can control the balance between the clamping effect, and the rolling-from-inside effect, by how much I pull on the handle of the device.

Note that the clamping effect can be reduced, without reducing the diameter of the ball (the larger the ball the better), by using the hollow balls.

As with any tool system, the more versatile the equipment, the better the job it can do, so buy the whole package.

Limitations: I have found it pretty useless even adjacent to post ribs. And for smaller diameter tubes, unless they are really soft, it does nothing. Still, I wouldn't be without it.

In hind sight, working only on saxes, I would not have bought the large set of small balls.
 

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simso said:
Ive purchased the 1.5 and his heavy duty 2" mdrs units. He also advertises a rat system "whats the difference".

Steve
The magnet tools you ordered are both flat faced armour coated tools. A "RAT" or Radial Access Tool, has a convex/round domed facing. These domed tools let you remove dents from the inside radius of bows or branches on larger instruments such as euphonium, tuba, sousaphone, etc. Since there are no inner radius bow or crooks which can be reached with these tools, they don't really apply to saxophones for the most part. The only exception is a dent in the bottom bow which is located on the inner 1/2 of the bow. The flat faced magnet tools you have will draw/stamp a flat spot in the metal if you try to use it within the inner radius area. If you do bari-sax bows, you will need to purchase a RAT tool. FYI - MDRS has somewhat limited use on the upper crook/pigtail section of a bari sax due to it's small diameter, and depending on how bad the dent/damage is.

Hope this helps.;)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yep thats all good, thanks for the info, just got to wait now for eric to send me an email saying there posted and on the way, communication was good up to sale and now all quiet, so Im assuming hes a very busy person, if he reads on this site then just a confirmation when there posted and Ill be happy. May have to if the tools work out well get the rat but Ive got to do some trial runs, no one here in australia uses them that I know of, well city of perth anyway
Enjoy
 

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Simso,

Eric has been in Chicago working with Wayne since last week and I believe returning to Lansing mid-week just in case you are wondering, haven't heard from him, or are waiting for your order.
 

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I use the RAT quite a bit (around posts and toneholes). -Maybe I'm using it wrong Jerry;) I would advise getting the RAT. You can also join both tools together to increase the power. Also there's the option of using a slide hammer on some stubborn dents. Then there's the option of using two balls. I :love2: my MDRS
Hans
 

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simso said:
Mmm sounds good, what about really tough materials, Im talking about things like clarinet bells for altos and bass units, this materials pretty solid.
This is one area it fails usually, due to the small diameter and the strength of the material on student instruments. You might have a bit better success on instruments with sterling necks and bells, but I have yet to use it on one of them. Since most dents on those items can be removed using conventional dent removal tools and methods, there is not much to gain using MDRS.

Remember, MDRS is primarily used for areas which were previously not accessible or where conventional methods don't work as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Okay well today I got my ball set in from 1/2 inch all the way up to 3 inch in 0.125 increments.
Im impressed by what it can do on open exposed sections of the body and sections were the brass curves away from you, eg the lower section of the bow.
I found around posts its pretty much no good and surfaces which curve towards you do not do. I had a rubbish sax body to try it out on and I did the forward section of the bell and left bloody big creases in it from the tool not fitting hard against the body, I also found inside radius of lower bow no good as well, has anyone made a profile tool to clip onto the front of the mdrs to keep good contact for these tight radius's ect. Also I found that small tubes which require a 1.25" dia or smaller ball dont work.

That being said its worth every cent I paid for it, for the repairs it can do. I had a yamaha tenor body that I had been putting of and putting of and always finding excuses not to do becuase it really required a mandrel to be made and the bell was bad and the bow was crushed ect, in about 15 minutes with sweat pouring of me, bloody hard work, I had majority of the dents knocked out to a satisfactory finish, it also allowed me to place a ball in some spots to manually burnish the dent creases out

All in all not to bad

Anyone got any tips and tricks that theyve come up with or warnings of things not to do
 

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"I found around posts its pretty much no good and surfaces which curve towards you do not do."

That is exactly what the RAT tool is for.

I think it would be just too dangerous, keeping on removing and replacing a solid chunk of metal on the end of a magnet to change the shape of the end face. perhaps this is why there is a dedicated, separate magnet tool with convex face,i.e. the RAT tool.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yep, I would buy the rat tool, but I probably wont, I originally purchaased the shop setup with both flat faced tools and shipping to australia was quoted and paid at a 100, the actual cost was less, but I l can live with some "handling charges". I then went to buy a set of balls, happy to buy from eric first and support his products but shipping was 100 again, now Im not happy paying handling charges of 60 dollars so I instead went an alternative route and bought from a US bearing company and shipping was 35 dollars for 19 balls which went from .5 inch to 3 inch in .125 increments. Its the handling charges which has unfortunatley made me look elsewhere.
The product is very good
Steve
 

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Yet another satisfied MDRS customer. :D

You'll find the RAT useful on the front side of bari sax bells where it curves outwards. Keep in mind that usually if the surrounding surface area you are working on is either flat or convex the regular flat dome tool is usually the best. If it is concave, the round dome RAT tool is the usually the best option. This is part of the learning curve. (No pun intended.) ;)
 

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I sympathise with you, Simso. Shipping to this part of the world is often horrendous. That is just one reason why cost of repairs here tends to be a bit higher than in USA.
 
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