Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
How does he play those 4th voicings? When I play a 4th chord it sounds nothing like Tyner. I know I can't sound like him, even on a piano, but I'm confused because I think I'm getting one of the chord tones wrong..
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2009-
Joined
·
2,759 Posts
I remember listening to some piano music by Brahms — and the thought came to me, directly from my subconscious, "He's been listening to McCoy Tyner!"
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Columnist and Saxophonistic Art
Joined
·
6,260 Posts
How does he play those 4th voicings? When I play a 4th chord it sounds nothing like Tyner. I know I can't sound like him, even on a piano, but I'm confused because I think I'm getting one of the chord tones wrong..

I use these a lot, and Charlie Banacos/who I study'd with really was into them- McCoy, Chick and Herbie love these.

Here's the deal ;


Many times called Quartal Voicings as well, EG-harmony chord structures in fourths (quartals).
Left hand plays chord voicing in fourths. Do Quartal Voicings departing from 3. from 13, from 9, from 7.

In the upper staff: Take notes of C scale in fourth intervals departing from B.
All are notes of extended C chord: 7, 3, 13, 9, 5, 1. Play in r.h.arpeggiated:
B-E-A-D-G-High C
B-E-A-D-G-High C
ETC...

Then- Practice these four voicings:

C/ D-G-C
C/ E-A-D
C/ A-D-G
C/ B-E-A

NEXT,

These can also be called " So What" voicings, but be careful because Bill Evans used a lot of "rootless chords" too.

Check this out- and apply it.Its easy and pretty basic.


There are several different approaches that I've used when experimenting with quartal stacks-EG VOICINGS IN 4THS. You can approach all of these voicings exactly the same way.

As far as left hand comping is concerned for pianists:

Diatonically (In C: CFB, DGC, EAD, etc.) - Hold down the tonic with one hand and try running the scale with these voicings. Do this for all of the modes too and you can find some incredible sounds!

Parallelly (In C: CFBb, DGC, EAD, FBbEb, etc.) -


For example, in the tune All The Things You Are, the voicing FBbEb will get you through the first 5 bars of the tune! If your really into Jaki Byard he would sometimes use these voicings over one key center to imply a short modal vamp.In this case, any of the diatonic chords in Ab; you pick! It can be very open-and free too.

This particular voicing (FBbEb) could really be used in a TON of situations like Cm7, Csus, DbMaj7, Db7, DPhrygian, Dalt, EbMaj7, Ebm7, Eb7, Fm7, Fsus, GbMaj7, Abmaj7, Ab7, A7Alt, Bbsus, Bbm7, BLydian, and I'm sure there are many others.

The trick to getting a convincing sound out of the voicing actually lies in your solo lines.
You can get a LOT of mileage out of one single quartal voicing, and once you start to learn how to use them this way, you can use these voicings in conjunction with your right hand lines of course, as pivot points for weaving "outside" and then back "in" again.

Along this note, Quartal voicings have a strange way of working very well in motion by halfsteps. Chances are, a quartal voicing that works on a ii7 will move down a halfstep to form a V7Alt and then ANOTHER halfstep to land on the IMaj7 chord!

Go to the the keyboard to figure these out.
(LH - 3/7) - (RH Quartal voicings)
Cm7 - Eb Bb - D G C
F7Alt - Eb A - C# F# B
BbMaj7 - D G - C F Bb


This should keep you busy- and should open some harmonic doors- if you need more help PM me and I'll explain more. Pretty basic to grasp- take your time and enjoy.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Columnist and Saxophonistic Art
Joined
·
6,260 Posts
Great ideas Tim. Wish I was home where I have a keyboard to try some of this stuff out!
For sure :)

I hope the original poster gets to these and it helps. Fun stuff.
 

·
The most prolific Distinguished SOTW poster, Forum
Joined
·
27,650 Posts
Nice explanations, Tim. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Wow, thanks for the explanation. It was a lot simpler than I thought it was. I'm guessing that using quartal voicings is more commonplace in modal music, or at least an important part of modal music.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,525 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Columnist and Saxophonistic Art
Joined
·
6,260 Posts
Wow, thanks for the explanation. It was a lot simpler than I thought it was. I'm guessing that using quartal voicings is more commonplace in modal music, or at least an important part of modal music.
Simon- Another great innovator in the field is pianist Herbie Hancock. He is well known for working with Miles Davis's,Herbie Hancock recorded a number of solo albums. Check out -Maiden Voyage. On the title song of this album Hancock has suspended and minor chords that are played throughout the entire piece and played with a open sound due to Hancock's use of fourths in voicing the chords. You'll dig it.

The door opens when a "comp" is stacked in 4ths...or "rootless". For instance, In improvising, start by thinking about playing the notes within a specific mode (e.g., D Dorian: D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D) to create note choices for improvisation. This is what Miles Davis does at the beginning of his solo in "So What". The player may even choose any of the triads available in that mode: C major, D minor, E minor etc. If you really want to get a nice tension choose the upper structure triads using the 9th, 11th and 13th of the chord , that will result in cool tension.

The player may also use the many different pentatonic scales within the scale such as C minor pentatonic, F major pentatonic and G minor pentatonic. Note that these scales are also relative E♭ major, D minor and B♭ major pentatonic, respectively.As I said, when a comp is stacked/ voiced like this doors open.
To go into one of the_jazz_areas that Miles got this from, study jazz pianist, composer and trio innovator Ahmad Jamal whose early use of extended vamps allowed him to solo for long periods infusing that section of the song with fresh ideas. Miles Davis was always in his praise for Jamal's influence on him, his playing, and his music, you can hear that point to a road in the modal work that lay in Davis' work.

Any jazz player today, from Scofield, Phil Woods, Bergonzi etc etc has investigated this aspect deeply.

ANYHOW- I think your gonna have some fun man checkin' all this out. :)
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top