Sax on the Web Forum banner
121 - 133 of 133 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2014
Joined
·
2,642 Posts
Consider the system without the air stream. If the pressure is higher in the mouthpiece it'll force the reed open.
Sort of, but not necessarily. As the pressure in the mouthpiece approaches neutral, the reed will open based on its particular modulus of flexibility or "stiffness" (not explained or even addressed in the text.) The stiffer the reed, the larger the pressure differential can be (not explained or even addressed in the text.) And by neutral pressure, I mean neutral as to the high pressure being produced by the player, not ambient (not explained or even addressed in the text).

The text does explain that the pressure produced by the player is high and relatively constant. That means "low pressure," as indicated in the mouthpiece diagram with the reed closed, actually means "pressure above ambient sufficient to allow the reed's stiffness to overcome the constant high pressure produced by the player." Okay, we can reason that out by ignoring the diagram. "Low pressure" in the diagram doesn't mean lowest, or even low as to ambient. Okay, ignore the diagram.

If it is lower it'll allow the reed to close. It isn't the high pressure closing the reed. The diagram shows high pressure in the mouthpiece with the reed open. With a more open aperture, more air goes in. The air flow causes a Bernoulli effect which closes the reed.
The diagram shows high pressure in the mouthpiece with the reed open, when actually we both agree that that is when the low pressure (i.e., the Bernoulli effect) occurs in the mouthpiece and pulls the reed closed. Okay, ignore the diagram. Then, the highest relative pressure in the mouthpiece occurs when the reed is closed, which allows the reed to open. Okay, ignore the diagram. Then read the text for an inartful explanation as to how the diagram is misleading and out of phase. Okay. Got it.

We are in agreement. Good thing we had the diagram (to ignore), the text (to explain), and could then determine that low and high pressure terminology can be extremely complex to diagram and explain accurately. We have the proof.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that it's just me that finds the diagram less than helpful and the text less than enlightening.

Sorry about no "material" content.

Mark
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
selmer 26 nino, 22 curved sop, super alto, King Super 20 and Martin tenors, Stowasser tartogatos
Joined
·
3,401 Posts
The reed of a conical woodwind opens due to a reflection at the end of the mpc. For a cylindrical one (clarinet) it is from a reflection at the end of the tube. Nederveen explains all this in detail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
Hmm, will SOTW consensus be reached in my lifetime? Since it took quite a while to get world consensus on the earth orbiting the sun (equally important I suppose), I doubt it.

I'm voting it doesn't matter enough to be meaningful to me. I'll also keep buying hard rubber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Hmm, will SOTW consensus be reached in my lifetime? Since it took quite a while to get world consensus on the earth orbiting the sun (equally important I suppose), I doubt it.

I'm voting it doesn't matter enough to be meaningful to me. I'll also keep buying hard rubber.
I fully agree... and as long you'll play HR I'll stay with metal LOL
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
3,287 Posts
Discussion Starter · #128 ·
Yeah, the Sax is a different ballgame but the Trumpet is still interesting.

If the effect is there then Acoustic Science will pick it up with vibrational modal analysis etc, as in the Trumpet case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Its simple really! Matte finishes sound darker and shiny one brighter! Alloys that look darker in there natural state are darker too!

Tone hole placement, bore design, resonators, or design have NOTHING to do with it! :twisted:

In all honesty, what we have on the nature of clarinet/sax acoustics is highly inconclusive. I would refer you to the research of Stevan Fox, Ed Pillenger, a and Arthur H. Benade.

Arthurs work is VERY important to what we do every day. I would recommend reading it.

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/marl/Benade/writings/58to69.html
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
selmer 26 nino, 22 curved sop, super alto, King Super 20 and Martin tenors, Stowasser tartogatos
Joined
·
3,401 Posts
"A fable, more remarkable since it is always discussed, is that the material of which a wind instrument is made, has an effect upon the sound of the same; that this is not so rests upon incontrovertible acoustical laws, about which there should be absolutely no more discussion."
~Arthur S. Benade
 

·
Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
Joined
·
17,204 Posts
But I hear the voices saying.. "He's a scientist - shame! - and an acknowledged top expert in the area, so what would he know"!
(And wasn't he a musician too?... "Must have been an ignorant one.") :banghead:
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013
Joined
·
2,892 Posts
If I think a silver neck helps me play in some way, thereby influencing the way I sound, the case is closed. Since when does Big Science have a damn thing to do with the completely subjective art of playing a musical instrument and relishing the acoustic properties of certain materials/combinations of materials in the instruments? A Strad violin of Bakelite is going to be indiscernible from a real one? Really? A sax mouthpiece of plaster is going to sound like one of silver? A sax made of plastic is going to sound like a Grafton? :)
Material matters. To the player. The only one who counts. Nobody else gives a damn.
Yep. I'm with you. (Why am I hearing "Get Off of My Cloud" by the Stones in my head?) ;^)
 
121 - 133 of 133 Posts
Top