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Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
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Discussion Starter #1
I've started shipping horns around again as I get back into selling vintage horns (I sell modern horns too, but those come with wedges already) and I'm wondering what is a good material to use to cork keys shut for shipping? I would prefer some sort of synthetic material, slippery but not too slippery (needs to stay in place but not be in danger of the end user pulling off an adjustment cork/felt along with it), not brown or black in color so its easily seen and differentiated from the adjustment materials (something like bright red would be awesome), firm but deformable, with no memory so it doesn't take an impression and fall out while in the mail.

I'm talking about something that I can use to wedge keys shut by placing it between the body and the key foot on the stacks, and between the key spine and the key guard on the bow and bell keys.

I don't want to use key clamps. I'm currently using cork, but I would prefer something more easily differentiated from what is supposed to be on the horn from the perspective of the end user.

Thanks in advance!
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
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Should we start collecting wine corks for you? Some of the synthetic ones would fit the bill nicely - made just for the reasons you state.
 

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Some of the manufacturers use a sort of plastic foam stuff. You can get rectangles of similar stuff (it's a bit like mouse matts or wrist wrests for computers), sold as matts to sit on from camping shops. Some are more rubbery than others so you need to have a look, but they can be got very cheaply. Some come in different colours too.
 

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I would prefer something more easily differentiated from what is supposed to be on the horn from the perspective of the end user.
Have you considered marking the end (short side) of the wedge with a colored marker (ie "Sharpie")?
 

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You might try the "foam blocks" made for kids to play with. It's brightly colored, springy, easy to cut into the desired width and shape, and relatively cheap.

I also use it for mods internal to old cases to remove play from the horn/ case interior interface and prevent the frequent ensuing dents as the horn bops around inside the closed case. In many cases one can insert carefully cut pieces of the foam behind the fabric lining- especially along the back side of the case where the RH thumbrest and low Eb guard bounce their way in to the body on older case designs- and have it virtually undetectable. The foam under the liner would go between the thumbrest and the keyguard so that the mass of the horn is supported by a broad area resting on the foam.

http://www.amazon.com/Chenille-Kraf...FAAG/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1312392225&sr=8-8 is a link to a grab bag of the stuff- there are many offerings of different shapes ETC.
 

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Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
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Discussion Starter #8
Henry D and Woosax, that is exactly the kind of stuff I was thinking of. I'll have to get a close look to see if it would fit my purposes. Excellent!


Thanks everyone!
 

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Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
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"You might try the "foam blocks" made for kids to play with. It's brightly colored, springy, easy to cut into the desired width and shape, and relatively cheap" Yes, polyurethane foam would be ideal, I think. Low friction and good springiness. Easy to cut from a sheet.

But...


I can't understand why pads are wedged shut during transit.

Perhaps the main reason is so that the fine adjustment that was not done before shipping hopefully is band-aided during shipping by developing a deeper seat in the pads. Of course, such an approach soon reverts once wedges are removed.

The ex-factory instruments I encounter are those from Selmer Paris. They used to have keys wedges for transit, and the adjustments were appalling, and that was exacerbated by the fact that the highest points in the pad had been sufficiently crushed during the wedged-transit, that the pad was locally crushed in that region. That is, the pad no longer had any resemblance of uniform thickness.
Clearly, any adjustment at the factory was extremely superficial, and somehow Selmer expected the wedges magically to carry out the adjustment in transit.

It was one of those things I grizzled about in this forum. But for the last couple years there has been no wedging, and adjustment has been far better, and pads have not been damaged by the wedging. So any pre-sale adjustment is minimal.

Thank you Selmer, for seeing the light!

I've never used wedges in transit myself, and never had an issue.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member/Technician
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Matt, may I also make a suggestion, that if you do ship instruments with wedges to hold the keys closed, connect all the wedges together via some twine or something, so that way the person just removes the cord with attached wedges
 

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Perhaps the main reason is so that the fine adjustment that was not done before shipping hopefully is band-aided during shipping by developing a deeper seat in the pads. Of course, such an approach soon reverts once wedges are removed..
I hope thats not an inference that matt will use this process to acomodate sub standard work. Im pretty sure you or I have never seen his work, and any inference accordingly is really not warranted here.
 

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I've started shipping horns around again as I get back into selling vintage horns (I sell modern horns too, but those come with wedges already) and I'm wondering what is a good material to use to cork keys shut for shipping? I would prefer some sort of synthetic material, slippery but not too slippery (needs to stay in place but not be in danger of the end user pulling off an adjustment cork/felt along with it), not brown or black in color so its easily seen and differentiated from the adjustment materials (something like bright red would be awesome), firm but deformable, with no memory so it doesn't take an impression and fall out while in the mail.

I'm talking about something that I can use to wedge keys shut by placing it between the body and the key foot on the stacks, and between the key spine and the key guard on the bow and bell keys.

I don't want to use key clamps. I'm currently using cork, but I would prefer something more easily differentiated from what is supposed to be on the horn from the perspective of the end user.

Thanks in advance!
I haven't had any trouble distinguishing your swedges from the permanent corks, but what if you just marked or colored them with a Sharpie or something similar. Spray paint would also work (which you can buy there without coughing up 5 forms of ID -- unlike in NYC).

It would be tough to not notice a bright pink piece of cork holding a low Bb down.

Just a thought.
 

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I hope thats not an inference that Matt will use this process to accommodate sub standard work. Im pretty sure you or I have never seen his work, and any inference accordingly is really not warranted here.
I did write "perhaps". I did say "main reason". And perhaps you could suggest others. Ah! I have one... Unquestioned tradition, learnt from some instructor in the distant past, perhaps in the days when pads were really squishy and uneven in thickness. I'm eager to hear Matt's different reason. My reason is based on what I see from factories. I cannot comment on Matt's work, because to my knowledge I have never seen it. Have you? I have certainly never seen a sax with wedges installed by a technician. All the more reason why I cannot comment on why a technician might do this, as opposed to why a factory might.

Perhaps the issue warrants discussion. I've presented my thoughts and findings, no personal inferences implied. No doubt others have well thought out reasons for wedging - I'm all ears. But as I say, it seems that Selmer has seen the light, and that is shipping half way around the globe. I keenly await your own comments on the subject.
 

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I cannot comment on Matt's work, because to my knowledge I have never seen it. Have you?. .
No I havent, I thought thats actually what I said

Im pretty sure you or I have never seen his work,
......

I have certainly never seen a sax with wedges installed by a technician. All the more reason why I cannot comment on why a technician might do this, as opposed to why a factory might.
Matt answered this, before you posted the question

I've started shipping horns around again as I get back into selling vintage horns (I sell modern horns too, but those come with wedges already) and I'm wondering what is a good material to use to cork keys shut for shipping?
It was from this reference below, that I got the inference to shoddy work. Hence the simple theres no need for it. If that was not your intent then lets kick it down to the impersonality of a forum and the inability to show humour or hand gestures.

"I can't understand why pads are wedged shut during transit.
Perhaps the main reason is so that the fine adjustment that was not done before shipping hopefully is band-aided during shipping by developing a deeper seat in the pads. Of course, such an approach soon reverts once wedges are removed..
 

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Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
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Matt answered this, before you posted the question
You mean post 1? I cannot see anywhere there where he explains why he uses wedges.
Am I blind??? Eeek!

It was from this reference below, that I got the inference to shoddy work... If that was not your intent then lets kick it down to the impersonality of a forum and the inability to show humour or hand gestures.
Yes, that would be apprropriate.

I was expressing a pondering that I have had long before I ever heard of Matt - probably before I came to this forum. There was nothing personal meant. But in general terms, my pondering still exists, as strong as ever. And I think it is worth discussing. Perhaps this is indeed the wrong thread.
 

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Administrator note

OK everyone, it is quite alright to have differing opinions, but resorting to insults will not be tolerated. I've had to remove a few offending posts as a result of this breach of the house rules.

Let's debate points intelligently and with respect, and refrain from such breaches in decorum.

Thank you.
 
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