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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
Moving on.
I installed the full lower stack. Beginning with the F# key fork setting to G# key. I set the F# where it fully closes and holds G# down. Press the pinky G# making sure the F# holds the key closed. When seating the pads. The F# I set heavy to the left and light to the right. This in anticipation of the sideload from the fork pressure. Notice the F key is still slightly open(on right). I also have just a touch of a leak at the very tip of F#. This will be taken care of when I set a impression on the pads. My technique may not work for everyone.
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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
Moving down the line, F, E, D, I made some slight key arm bending adjustments. One swipe of sandpaper under E foot. Everything is now synchronized and closes the F# key properly. All of the key heights are lower than my original measurements. There is no lost motion between the key foot and back bar. All pads sealed as set days earlier.
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For giggles I checked to see if the keys were in line. D could be more open.
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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
With the lower stack set. I proceeded to installing the upper stack. Oddly nothing needed an adjustment. Zip, nothing. The regulation by luck fell right into place using cork specifications from the teardown. The cork under the key feet being fresh, the openings are less than my measurements. Room to open key heights on both stacks.
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B closes the C cup.
Bb closes the C cup.
Both independently and regulated by the back bar pictured above.
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The A is independent of the back bar. Without the felt the “A” touch would not close Bb completely. With a new felt under the ”A” Touch gently bend the key arm as necessary to regulate the relationship closure. Do not bend from the pearl side. There is a chance you can snap the touch off. Done correctly the “A” touch closes A,Bb & C key cups in sync.
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Next regulate the fork at lower stack F# to finger on upper stack Bb.
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Done correctly there should be a little cork or regulation material at the meeting place. Depressing any lower stack F, E, D should fully close the upper stack Bb. This should be done without any excessive pressure on the F# fork. Be observant that the Bb finger pressure does not cause a leak in the F# by lifting the key. This area is notorious for being beat to death. Technicians will bend the F# cup or the B-flat finger to death trying to get this to happen.
Work the tolerances not the metal !
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Discussion Starter · #84 · (Edited)
I did check settings of the front F. I slipped a piece of felt underneath the key touch to check Clarence to C key cup. The final on this will be done when setting the front F to palm key.
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Onward 👉
Installing the upper stack G key and octave mechanism.
Think 20 ways to make a mouse trap. If you had any New Year’s resolutions to quit cussing. Good luck 🤪
The basic system functions like this…..
grab a beer…. or whatever.
LH thumb octave touch opens the neck octave key.
LH 3/“G” when playing closes the neck octave key and opens the body octave key.
Somewhere between 1864 and 2023 there’s a couple variations in how the “system” works.
That said, STUDY YOUR HORN ! Good luck Capt. James T. Kirk !
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 · (Edited)
With everything installed and springs attached…. I lightly sanded the cork under the G foot holding the body octave closed. I did this after ensuring the body octave pad was completely into the key cup and in relationship to my original dismantling notes/pictures. The G key height is 5.0mm. 3mm less than notes ! Any additional adjustments needed will be done by bending….somewhere.
octave lever
body octave key
upper stack G key (foot)
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with the entire mechanism assembled I bent this part to fully retract the octave lever against the body. The thumb octave lever is holding the body octave key closed
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A slight adjustment was made with two pulls of sandpaper. Pressing the thumb octave lever now raises the neck octave key 2mm off the pip face.
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set correctly after a 12 pack, two joints and a bottle of JD….

The neck octave lever should have a 1/32”+ clearance to the halo and be on the body(or close).
Pressing the thumb octave (1) lever should raise the neck lever (3) to octave key, opening the pip on the neck.
Still holding the thumb octave key down and pressing G (2) the body octave key (4) opens while the octave lever (3) fully retracts clearing the halo and closing the neck key. The clearances to the halo should be checked with the neck slightly indexed to the left or the right of center.
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Discussion Starter · #86 ·
Next…side keys.
With the keywork installed. The top view everything looks to be a good starting point. Nothing radically crooked.
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I’m not concerned about the heights. Adjustments are to be made and this will change the levels. From left to right, high E, C, Bb touches.
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I first check new cork function on the E. All good. Pressing the key opens the cup/pad to 5mm.(previously 7.5mm).
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Next is C.
The finger off the key touch arm is slightly off. This throws the fulcrum off making the key touch feel excessively stiff /hard.
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A slight adjustment to the right reduces this issue by 50% or more. I also spread the saddle support for the E tube above this key. I was detecting a little sluggishness in the E action. Lining the saddles with cork is usually one of the last things I do.
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With Bb pressed (open) I check for clearance between the keys.
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The spring tension still feeling heavy compared to the other two. I removed the key and flattened the curve of the spring some. The feeling between the three is now more balanced.
C open height is 4mm( (previously 4.7 mm).
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Do make sure the key is fully closed. Use feeler between the key arm and touch arm finger. No tension at .002. A adjustment can be made by sanding the cork under the finger, foot or bending the finger. I prefer the earlier two. Work the regulation materials not the metal.
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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
Setting side Bb.
The original key height setting was 10 mm.….remember a while back… some things shouldn’t be straightened. Well this is another one of those keys. I straighten things out🙄 Even with a thick cork under the key foot…. The key height opening was almost 15 mm.🤦‍♂️ The key touch was higher than the C and E.
Gently bending the arm back down to the right of the pivot point. I got the touch level and the key height set at 7.5 mm. (Rechecked pad seal) Plenty of range to adjust things later. The side keys are aligned and level.
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Time to set the bell keys and the LH pinky table.
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 ·
The bel keys installed including low C# .
With the installation of the new pads. The new regulations cork between the B & Bb touches. One swipe of sandpaper between them set the timing perfect to the Bell key closures.
I like the Bb to close just slightly before the B. I do this with the springs loaded and a leak light inside the bell.

Prior to the cork installation I aligned the bell keys with a small opened and wrench.
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I also realigned the pinky table with a small adjustable wrench.
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lastly I adjusted the gap in the pinky keys for roller fitment. It only took a couple of light hits with a 1” cold chisel and a 15 pound rubber mallet. Best to do with hearing protection and slightly dirty safety glasses. Less painful that way😬 Take a really good swing and hope you don’t hit your hand.
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Discussion Starter · #89 ·
Other build notes;

I went to install the flat springs and realized I hadn’t trimmed the cork anywhere. From all 28 or 30 parts this is the tailings left over. It’s not much.
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I installed all the flat springs with new screws. When doing this make sure all the blind holes are clean all the way to the bottom!!!!
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Discussion Starter · #91 ·
Installing flat springs.
I have some luck securing the part in a chunk of clay. Working to the back of the bench over a cloth keeps dropped the screws from being lost. I hold the spring then drop the screw in. Holding it like this. I place the screwdriver on the head and bring it to the part.
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Spring installed. Flat springs typically keep keys closed. The end goes on the opposite side of the pivot point. The casting of this key cup was a tad rough. I took a Dremel and cleaned the inside of the cup up. The new pad really liked that.
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So I have to do this with a tenor and soon. I have everything ready, I assume your posts will work the same way for it? I hadn't considered the corks only changing them when I have to. I have a couple of issues with Indiana that I am playing that I had to do a little cork work but it looks easier while the keys are off. I am a bit timid about getting things too far out of wack and the struggling to get them back regulated. I want to get my junker up and playing before tearing the deluxe down.
There are so many pics, are the flat springs new or just cleaned up and oiled?
 

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Discussion Starter · #93 ·
So I have to do this with a tenor and soon. I have everything ready, I assume your posts will work the same way for it? I hadn't considered the corks only changing them when I have to. I have a couple of issues with Indiana that I am playing that I had to do a little cork work but it looks easier while the keys are off. I am a bit timid about getting things too far out of wack and the struggling to get them back regulated. I want to get my junker up and playing before tearing the deluxe down.
There are so many pics, are the flat springs new or just cleaned up and oiled?
The basic skills are the same on most. Still for any given task there’s options.
On any repad all the parts should be thoroughly cleaned. Very old cork falls off often. It’s your horn. Do as you like. The cork was beyond use life on this Indiana.

Springs, one new the rest were cleaned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #94 ·
Last of the bodywork is installing the post saddle corks. Scrape clean and degrease well. I brush a light coating of contact cement into the saddle.
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This is my least favorite job on a whole entire build. With 1/64 cork I folded in half with the glue to the outsides. Drop into the saddle and smooth to the outer edges. good time to have the grain going to short direction on the cork !
I need to make some oval cutters. Maybe another day.
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While the parts above are curing I install all the rollers. Make sure those that have blind holes are clean! A little grease or oil in the hole will cause this rod to hydraulically lock up. It won’t go all the way in. I use a lightweight anti-corrosive waterproof grease for this application. Applied to the rod and run through coating the inside of the roller. Notice this one the hole does not go all the way through. “Blind hole”
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This part the hole goes all the way through. No concern about extra grease or oil on the thread side.
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Saddles are notoriously hard to trim smooth on the edges. The castings are usually rough on the sides.
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Discussion Starter · #96 · (Edited)
Clean the bench. Parts arranged per grouping.
I start the build with the lower stack. All the hinge tubes are cleaned one last time. The rod is wiped down. A few drops of oil and each tube as each is installed. Be careful not to over oil. Gently slide the rod in and if needed hold a Q-tip on the opposite end tube. you don’t want to be dripping oil down onto the pads ! I keep a hand towel and a bottle of hand sanitizer close by. Keep the fingers clean or you’ll end up with oily fingerprints all over everything.

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Next I move onto the upper stack. Everything being assembled, sprung and tested for action. If anything is not working 100% smooth stop and review the issue.
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A little noncorrosive grease in the end of the pivot points. Be careful not to have to much! Fill the end and insert the pivot screw. If it doesn’t go in all the way you have hydraulic lock ! this also depends on the type of pivot point. Not all will bind.
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Just after this picture I installed the octave system. Aargh got distracted.
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Moving onto the Bell keys.
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Last step installing the palm and side keys.
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I still need to place a felt under the thumb octave touch. Also the two bumpers on the bell guard. That will have to keep until tomorrow. Anniversary hot date tonight #24. Not keeping Ma squealer waiting.
 

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Last of the bodywork is installing the post saddle corks. Scrape clean and degrease well. I brush a light coating of contact cement into the saddle. View attachment 145098

This is my least favorite job on a whole entire build. With 1/64 cork I folded in half with the glue to the outsides. Drop into the saddle and smooth to the outer edges. good time to have the grain going to short direction on the cork !
I need to make some oval cutters. Maybe another day. View attachment 145099

While the parts above are curing I install all the rollers. Make sure those that have blind holes are clean! A little grease or oil in the hole will cause this rod to hydraulically lock up. It won’t go all the way in. I use a lightweight anti-corrosive waterproof grease for this application. Applied to the rod and run through coating the inside of the roller. Notice this one the hole does not go all the way through. “Blind hole” View attachment 145100

This part the hole goes all the way through. No concern about extra grease or oil on the thread side. View attachment 145101

Saddles are notoriously hard to trim smooth on the edges. The castings are usually rough on the sides. View attachment 145102 View attachment 145103
I wondered about if there was supposed to be some sort of support in what you call the saddle, there is so much so learn. I think that I will make myself pdfs from your threads.
 

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Thank you . This sax may be up for sale upon completion. The proceeds going to charity.

Any SOTW members that have instruments they’re sitting on,but are reluctant to attempt servicing. Join in if you would like. Post your sax and participate along. I don’t care what it is or the condition. Keep in mind you own your mishaps and mistakes. I take no responsibility for broken parts. Fingers stabbed with springs. Hands stabbed with screwdrivers. The lacquer on a Bundy II burning. Melted shellac on your wife’s favorite tablecloth. Crooked neck cork. Burnt pads, pearls or burning your garage down.
Knowledge of tool use and shop safety is your responsibility.
Sounds more like a "Disclaimer" to me GG:eek::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

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I've been sitting on one of these for several years now. It's engraved "The Indiana by Martin" and no RMC logo. I've fancied trying to fix it up myself a few times over the years but never took the plunge. The neck is split at the seem near the mouthpiece end. and there's some dents and missing felts. But I wrapped the neck in some teflon tape and gave it a play. I'm convinced that this horn is a player. It played much better than I expected it would and the sound was very nice.

Trying not to derail the thread too much but I'll give a little backstory. Back when I was in college my uncle called me up and said he was at an auction house and they had a vintage selmer sax and asked if he should buy it. At the time he was buying stuff and flipping it so I know he just wanted to know if he could make money off of it. I told him if it says selmer paris on it he should buy it. He showed up the next day, weekend maybe, with what he thought was a "Selmer Martin" and well we were both pretty disappointed with the reveal. It stank to high heaven so I tossed the case. Left it caseless for about a year before it got a ratty case, though not stinky, that someone was throwing out. The Indiana has now stunk up that case as well.
I took some pics. The clothes guard looks straighter than yours but it's not straight.
View attachment 143464 View attachment 143465

Though the post that it connects to on the body is pushed in slightly all around it so it's probably not the best example to go by. View attachment 143466
Here is a pic of the body for posterity.
View attachment 143467
And the damage to the neck.
View attachment 143463
Pick yourself up a neck, someone here must have one laying around...then you are off to the races ;)
 
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