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Discussion Starter #1
Please can someone recommend me CD or a video on Youtube where I can finally get the MT's beauty of tone. Please I am serious I am not trying to criticize him, style of playing, skills or those who love his tone. I just don't get it (YET). I truly love his playing and style that's for sure, but I would love listening to some of his work (without a trumpet player) where I can finally hear it. Please I am not asking for recordings of his skills. I mean PURE TONE. I want to get it. I know some things are an acquired taste but I loved Chris Potters, Dexter Gordon, Eric Alexander, Hank Mobley, Getz , Joshua Redman, Brecker, Pete christlieb, Seamus Blake's tone since I heard them the first time. I still don't get Turner. It sounds big but it makes me think of a very refined airy-metal-basson. I have been swallowing all the talking around me for years and I have never said it before till now... I don't think I will ever say it to anyone personally since people are too over-sensitive nowadays ..or maybe I am just getting old (I am 35) to get it.:(
 

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Im with you. Its just different. to me, just dull and not very appealing. Not taking anything of course from his incredible playing.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Im with you. Its just different. to me, just dull and not very appealing. Not taking anything of course from his incredible playing.
Yes of course his playing is great. I am just going crazy with some kids now saying " I want to Sound like MT!!!???? ""
 

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Whether you dig it or not, Mark Turner's playing is a refreshing reminder of how the music can be revivified by a unique voice, unlike anything that preceded it. No one is asking you to "get it" according to the prevailing conventions of what a tenor sax "should" sound like.

It's good to remember that before the canonization of modern jazz, the goal of every player was to have their own sound on their instrument. There is no such thing as "PURE TONE". Turner seems to be one of the few contemporaries who have understood how integral that goal is to keeping the music alive and relevant in the present tense.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Some good examples. Again, playing and skills are not into question here just SOUND. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6utuBXxlz5s . Compare it to this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jTbLl0uOv7U. My point is not that Chris potter's tone is better or that sort of nonsense comparison. The thing is the saxophone is and has always being an instrument of WOW from the very first sound it makes. WE ALL fell in love with it because it's sound first of all. If I wanted an instrument that just sounds the same from the lower notes to the altissimo and without any extra colors or even " noises" all over the instrument (perceptible by the listener, not only by the musician after the 3rd time listening to the track), I would just stick to clarinet.
 

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Mark's sound is tied to his improvisational concept.
Part of Mark's magic is his restraint and control. He balances the restraint and control by increasing harmonic tension.
He does not overuse jazz inflection like most modern players to woo and excite the crowd.
Redman for example to my ears always overuses scoops, bends, slurs, to add momentum and contour to his solos.
I actually like Josh Redman's playing. It's just that he tries SO HARD to get the crowd to like him...instead of just having fun and playing music.

Inflection is a part of the jazz lineage and jazz history. Dexter, Getz and all players have and use inflection.
Mark uses inflection too but it's not as obvious.
Walt Weiskopf and Chris Cheek also measure and control their inflection in very specific ways.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Mark's sound is tied to his improvisational concept.
Part of Mark's magic is his restraint and control. He balances the restraint and control by increasing harmonic tension.
He does not overuse jazz inflection like most modern players to woo and excite the crowd.
Redman for example to my ears always overuses scoops, bends, slurs, to add momentum and contour to his solos.
I actually like Josh Redman's playing. It's just that he tries SO HARD to get the crowd to like him...instead of just having fun and playing music.

Inflection is a part of the jazz lineage and jazz history. Dexter, Getz and all players have and use inflection.
Mark uses inflection too but it's not as obvious.
Walt Weiskopf and Chris Cheek also measure and control their inflection in very specific ways.
Maybe you are right and I will have to start listening to Mark more as whole complex, opposite to focusing solely on his tone.
 

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He seems to be very influential. I've had several Berklee students over here to try horns that were going for a sound like his. Usually however they use a setup they can't really play effectively throughout like a Link STM 8 and 3 1/2 or 4 reeds. It ends up sounding overly dry and stiff and very difficult to control at the bottom of the horn.

I don't know what Mark Turners setup is but obviously he does not have those problems and I do like his playing.
 

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Some good examples. Again, playing and skills are not into question here just SOUND. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6utuBXxlz5s . Compare it to this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jTbLl0uOv7U. My point is not that Chris potter's tone is better or that sort of nonsense comparison. The thing is the saxophone is and has always being an instrument of WOW from the very first sound it makes. WE ALL fell in love with it because it's sound first of all. If I wanted an instrument that just sounds the same from the lower notes to the altissimo and without any extra colors or even " noises" all over the instrument (perceptible by the listener, not only by the musician after the 3rd time listening to the track), I would just stick to clarinet.
Turner´s tone, sound and concept makes me WOW every time i hear him. He's playing his own thing, very individual "style", so recognizable...I really dig it, and it is a very dark sound. The lack of much bending, or vibrato, or other typical jazz nuances attracts me more than the contrary. There's a beauty in it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Anyway after this friendly discussions my only conclusion is that we all are different when it comes to personality, sensitiveness towards certain frequencies of sound, etc. ... The most important thing is that his music is great as well as his skills. The world is made for diversity and even if I hate his tone (especially in the lower register), there are plenty of guys who love it. I will be back to Lathe of Heaven. Maybe some day I will start loving his sound as well as his playing.
 

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Anyway after this friendly discussions my only conclusion is that we all are different when it comes to personality, sensitiveness towards certain frequencies of sound, etc. ... The most important thing is that his music is great as well as his skills. The world is made for diversity and even if I hate his tone (especially in the lower register), there are plenty of guys who love it. I will be back to Lathe of Heaven. Maybe some day I will start loving his sound as well as his playing.
You don't have to like him at all and that's the great thing about music. It's a hard to deny that he can't play but you don't have to dig it.
I don't like every Lovano record but appreciate and love him as player to see the song I don't like as a small snapshot into the total player.
Instead of Lathe of Heaven...I'd check out his ballads record which features him on standards.
 

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As an alto player myself, i have much more problems finding an altoist with a sound tone i like. But on tenor i enjoy a lot of very different sounding players.
 

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Dang, it sounds like he's playing way too hard of a reed for his setup, but apparently that's his tonal concept? Not for me, and that's cool if he (and others) likes it.
 

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I actually like Josh Redman's playing. It's just that he tries SO HARD to get the crowd to like him...instead of just having fun and playing music.
I see this differently. It seems to me "having fun and playing music" is exactly what Joshua does, especially using those scoops, bends, slurs, etc. As to pleasing the audience, that's a very good thing, imo.

I agree with Atratr; I like a lot of different sounding players on tenor. That's what makes the sax, and tenor especially, such a great instrument. I really can't think of a single great player who's tone I don't like, and yet I've heard plenty of amateurs with a terrible tone, so there is such a thing as poor tune quality. Mark Turner has a decent tone and plays great, but I'm not a big fan of that rather soft, pinched tone quality. Still, there's room for a lot of different tonal qualities that would still qualify as a good tone to me.
 

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If you skip the long unrelated a cappella intro and go to the tune, you hear what he sounds like when he pushes more air. Very nice.
His sound fits his concept perfectly and I think that’s what we all try to achieve.
I don’t have any of his recordings but I sure do appreciate his command of the saxophone.
I guess I prefer more of what I call a “wet’ sound. Bird, Lester Young, Coltrane, Joe Henderson.
I tend to go the opposite direction, as soft of a reed as I can possible play with a smaller tip. I just feel I get the most colors that way.

https://youtu.be/nIpKEvqMDeA
 

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If you skip the long unrelated a cappella intro and go to the tune, you hear what he sounds like when he pushes more air. Very nice.
His sound fits his concept perfectly and I think that’s what we all try to achieve.
I don’t have any of his recordings but I sure do appreciate his command of the saxophone.
I guess I prefer more of what I call a “wet’ sound. Bird, Lester Young, Coltrane, Joe Henderson.
I tend to go the opposite direction, as soft of a reed as I can possible play with a smaller tip. I just feel I get the most colors that way.

https://youtu.be/nIpKEvqMDeA
Loved that one!!!
 

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Please can someone recommend me CD or a video on Youtube where I can finally get the MT's beauty of tone. Please I am serious I am not trying to criticize him, style of playing, skills or those who love his tone. I just don't get it (YET). I truly love his playing and style that's for sure, but I would love listening to some of his work (without a trumpet player) where I can finally hear it. Please I am not asking for recordings of his skills. I mean PURE TONE. I want to get it. I know some things are an acquired taste but I loved Chris Potters, Dexter Gordon, Eric Alexander, Hank Mobley, Getz , Joshua Redman, Brecker, Pete christlieb, Seamus Blake's tone since I heard them the first time. I still don't get Turner. It sounds big but it makes me think of a very refined airy-metal-basson. I have been swallowing all the talking around me for years and I have never said it before till now... I don't think I will ever say it to anyone personally since people are too over-sensitive nowadays ..or maybe I am just getting old (I am 35) to get it.:(
My favorite is Yam Yam. I listened to that endlessly when it came out. I love the compositions and Mark Turner's tone is so dark and pure. I have never understood his lines so much but that's why I find them so interesting..........
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks Steve!!! I think I like his concept of sound in that CD a lot better. I never listened to that album before. That's a tone that although is not my goal, I would definitely call exquisite!!! Maybe he was playing more "relaxed" then!!??
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If you skip the long unrelated a cappella intro and go to the tune, you hear what he sounds like when he pushes more air. Very nice.
His sound fits his concept perfectly and I think that’s what we all try to achieve.
I don’t have any of his recordings but I sure do appreciate his command of the saxophone.
I guess I prefer more of what I call a “wet’ sound. Bird, Lester Young, Coltrane, Joe Henderson.
I tend to go the opposite direction, as soft of a reed as I can possible play with a smaller tip. I just feel I get the most colors that way.

https://youtu.be/nIpKEvqMDeA
Yes I prefer the "wet sound" as well. I like his sound here and on Steve's suggestion Yam Yam, by far better than in those recordings with trumpet players. I think I have just blocked myself from his other work, just because I didn't like 2 or 3 albums.
 
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