[jazzcatJr95]

I'm a High School student living in Western New York (nowhere near the city). Saxophone is what i know i want to do for the rest of my life, even if i am just 16. I perform in many extracurricular bands and some non-extracurricular that are non-profit. Being a normal 16 yr old, i can't continue living on zero income, especially with college right around the corner. Not only do i want to be recognized, i want to be able to make money doing this as well. I'm a firm believer that one should not have to work a day in their life if they enjoy what they do.

are there any helpful hints and tips anyone can give me to starting my saxophone career? anything helps. Music ideas, Gigging ideas, anything. Right now i'm at ground zero.

I live within 20 mins of a city too that is very big on music performance if that helps.

 

[LateNiteSax]

Sounds like you are doing fine. Your "saxophone career" should not mean you don't do (lots of) other things to survive as well.

At this point you should dedicate yourself to studying music, and your survival as a musician will depend on having a wide range of skills and being flexible. This means doubling on other woodwinds and other instruments, excellent sight reading as well as having arranging skills, teaching, computer skills and business and networking skills. Be ready to practice and work very, very hard.

Get the curriculum of a great music program, and do it yourself and with excellent private teacher(s) and spend a fraction of what you would spend for college tuition. Get a formal musical education and study performance, theory, ear training, music history, electronic music, and be a part of lots of groups and ensembles. Sure eventually you may need to go to college, but for music, its clear to me that the American university system is huge, arrogant rip-off, and these parasitic organizations are dinosaurs. and Phil Woods made a good point when he said:

"Then there's his stand on jazz education. He's been quoted as saying that it's a "revolving door" in the United States. "We don't need 3,000 tenor players a year" coming out of American high schools and colleges.

My advice is to get educated, and do it without getting into 10, 20, or even $100,000.000 or more in student loans. Don't be that guy!! You know how much private study $20,000.00 can buy? A LOT. Maybe if you come out with a dental or medical degree and you can pay it off within a few years of hard work, but to do it and come out with the income prospects of a musician, is pure insanity.

 

[jazzcatJr95]

Sounds like you are doing fine. Your "saxophone career" should not mean you don't do (lots of) other things to survive as well.

At this point you should dedicate yourself to studying music, and your survival as a musician will depend on having a wide range of skills and being flexible. This means doubling on other woodwinds and other instruments, excellent sight reading as well as having arranging skills, teaching, computer skills and business and networking skills. Be ready to practice and work very, very hard.

Get the curriculum of a great music program, and do it yourself and with excellent private teacher(s) and spend a fraction of what you would spend for college tuition. Get a formal musical education and study performance, theory, ear training, music history, electronic music, and be a part of lots of groups and ensembles. Sure eventually you may need to go to college, but for music, its clear to me that the American university system is huge, arrogant rip-off, and these parasitic organizations are dinosaurs. and Phil Woods made a good point when he said:

"Then there's his stand on jazz education. He's been quoted as saying that it's a "revolving door" in the United States. "We don't need 3,000 tenor players a year" coming out of American high schools and colleges.

My advice is to get educated, and do it without getting into 10, 20, or even $100,000.000 or more in student loans. You know how much private study $20,000.00 can buy? A LOT. Don't be that guy!! Maybe if you come out with a dental or medical degree and you can pay it off within a few years of hard work, but to do it and come out with the income prospects of a musician, is pure insanity.

to the middle part there, i have been sight reading a lot as well as trying to teach myself the clarinet. i also am looking into giving private lessons to younger students. i am taking private lessons with the best that my county has to offer and im lucky enough to have him be my band instructor as well.

As to the whole "college is a rip off" thing, i totally agree with you! it's really difficult to teach something thats more like a way of feeling and a way of life than a curriculum, and many times it's not worth the $20,000 you pay for it. i do however have one of the third best music schools in the coutry(America) on practically my backyard. so whereas the not go to college at all thing, i'm a little on the fence.

I just wanna be able to make some money doing this. You know? I can't mooch off my parents forever, and the thought of continuing throwing wood for my girlfriends uncle any longer than i have to sickens me. I have no idea where to start though.

 

[artstove]

College can significantly increase your income potential, depending on what you want to do (or end up doing). If you want to teach music in any level of school, you need a degree (unless you become a superstar player).

People differ on whether it is better to make your living from your passion/art or not. For some, they cannot imagine doing anything other than play music/make art/etc., and so try to find ways to make their living from that. (Very difficult, especially in today's economy.) For others, they want it to be their passion, not their job. They would rather not have to make art that others want - they just want it to be their own, so they stay amateurs (or selective, part-time professionals), and make their living doing something else. Neither approach is wrong or right - you just have to find what works for you.

You are thinking hard about this, and are working hard at your playing, both of which are essential. I think you are on the right track - working on your fundamental skills (sight reading, ear training, theory, improvising, instrument technique, etc.) and playing in a wide range of groups are good. Keep up the hard work, and keep your eyes open for opportunities to pursue. You never know when a door might open - you just need to be aware that it is there.

 

[LateNiteSax]

to the middle part there, i have been sight reading a lot as well as trying to teach myself the clarinet. i also am looking into giving private lessons to younger students. i am taking private lessons with the best that my county has to offer and im lucky enough to have him be my band instructor as well.

As to the whole "college is a rip off" thing, i totally agree with you! it's really difficult to teach something thats more like a way of feeling and a way of life than a curriculum, and many times it's not worth the $20,000 you pay for it. i do however have one of the third best music schools in the coutry(America) on practically my backyard. so whereas the not go to college at all thing, i'm a little on the fence.

I just wanna be able to make some money doing this. You know? I can't mooch off my parents forever, and the thought of continuing throwing wood for my girlfriends uncle any longer than i have to sickens me. I have no idea where to start though.

You are not mooching off of your parents, they are your parents. There were a couple of times in my adult life when I needed them. Badly. I thank God they were there. Once from a personal crisis and down on my luck and really freakin broke, and then twice recovering from surgeries I had a mom and dad to help me through. Just try to be out of the house by the time you are 23. Thats an arbitrarily selected age.

I'm very much into learning, studying, researching, and growing, but can you imagine the arrogance of an institution to charge someone like 30 or 40 grand a year for the privilege to study music at their program? With no guaranteed job waiting for you of any kind? WOW, thats messed up. Give me a LOT of scholarships and maybe you can have the privilege of have me at your school. I learned to play music in clubs, on the road, and in my personal practice space. And when I eventually went to get my masters in music ed, I filled in a lot gaps, but I already had the sort of real world knowledge the others there couldn't touch.

Yes you should want to make money, lots of money, but not at the price most idiots are willing to pay, which is their health and happiness. How effffed up are we in this country with corporations getting record levels of productivity from people, but salaries are stagnant, jobs being offshored, profits at record levels, record salaries for the top brass, and refusing to give people proper benefits and salaries, General Electric payed NO TAXES last year, and most people get like only 2 measly weeks of vacation a year. Go to Europe and see how much happier and healthier people are, with universal healthcare, 6 weeks of vacation a year, less stress, and a much better food. We are being dumbed down and suckered by Washington and Wall St every which way, and people are seduced by materialism and create artificial needs for themselves.

Yes you should want to make lots of money, but if that means being stuck in an office tower for 18 hours a day, staring at a computer screen, wearing a suit, working with toxic people, doing something you hate, working for a big financial firm on Wall St. like me when I got out of college, then fuggetaboudit. Wow did that ever suck. I'm much happier doing something personally fulfilling, meaningful and contributing to society in my own positive way. Teaching school, private lessons, doing fun gigs, making music, going to the park, being with my family, I enjoy, often even love, everything I do, with minor exceptions. I have what i need to be happy, and the Hyundai gets me where i going just fine, and its nice, and I let the other guy worry about his precious BMW. Sure it would be great to have, but a fancy car is very low down on my priority list.

What exactly is "throwing wood" and do you hate the activity, or do you hate the GF's uncle?

 

[Graysax]

I'm a High School student living in Western New York (nowhere near the city). Saxophone is what i know i want to do for the rest of my life, even if i am just 16. I perform in many extracurricular bands and some non-extracurricular that are non-profit. Being a normal 16 yr old, i can't continue living on zero income, especially with college right around the corner. Not only do i want to be recognized, i want to be able to make money doing this as well. I'm a firm believer that one should not have to work a day in their life if they enjoy what they do.

are there any helpful hints and tips anyone can give me to starting my saxophone career? anything helps. Music ideas, Gigging ideas, anything. Right now i'm at ground zero.

I live within 20 mins of a city too that is very big on music performance if that helps.

Being a former Chautauqua County resident myself (Forestville) I kinda know this story from personal experience (except it was about 22 years ago when I went through it).

At your age, what you should be doing is finding ANY excuse to play with people with more experience than you. Notice I did not say (necessarily) better than you. Every experience is a learning experience. Be humble and ask questions and LISTEN to the answers. The way to getting started in the gigging scene is baby steps. You do some free community groups. You meet some people. They like you. (here is the point if they don't - your screwed) Those people play in other groups too, so they invite you along and you meet more people. and so on and so forth.

SUNY Fredonia is right down the road (FYI - that's where I ended up), and while they are not a big Jazz Education school, their Instructor (Wildy Zumwalt) is beyond capable to teach you the "Saxophone" aspect of your playing. Agreed, he will do it through classical music, but what you do with it after college is up to you. Also Bruce Johnstone floats around your area. Go see him play sometime and see if you can hook up with him for lessons.

If things are still the same from when I live there, most of the better paying gigs were in Erie county, but for some reason, breaking into their scene, is extremely difficult.

Good Luck

Charlie

 

[jazzcatJr95]

What exactly is "throwing wood" and do you hate the activity, or do you hate the GF's uncle?

"throwing wood" is arbitrarily throwing pieces of wood that a guy chops up into a dumptruck to be delivered somewhere (idk where) for 8 hours a day on the weekends. it only pays about $50 a week. it sucks.

 

[LateNiteSax]

"throwing wood" is arbitrarily throwing pieces of wood that a guy chops up into a dumptruck to be delivered somewhere (idk where) for 8 hours a day on the weekends. it only pays about $50 a week. it sucks.

50 bucks for 2 days of work at 8 hours a day. 16 hours, thats about $3.13 per hour. For hard work it sounds like you are getting underpaid to me. Thats like 2 boxes of reeds. I was making 5 bucks an hour to do that sort of thing 25 years ago.

 

[gary]

Regarding LateNiteSax's suggestions on how to spend your money wisely learning your craft, first - no argument.

But you have to be honest with yourself. Do you have the discipline, motivation and organisational skills to do it that way? Do you know how to prioritise what to learn and when? Because if you don't, you will also be throwing your time and money away.

One thing school does is organise for you a heirarchy of studies and it concentrates in one place and time, teachers, courses and ensembles which makes the process of absorbing a lot in a short time very efficient. And with an academic system of accountability like it is, it also privides a degree of what I call, "impose discipline".

Also, if you believe that those first post-high school years are to be spent not just learning music but learning other subjects, participating in other arts, associating and collaborating with other arts projects, etc, again, a university campus provides a concentration of opportunities.

To reiterate, I'm not saying you can't get these experiences or learning outside of school. I'm just calling attention to the flip side of the coin and also that you have to take into consideration your own character. If you do decide to attend university, you need to be very creative about your financing and you should begin right now researching the various possibilities and start to develoop a plan.

 

[littlewailer]

Besides your musical career. Try very hard to be a good person. I know it sounds pretty obvious. Monster players with huge egos aren't as popular as very good players with a great personality.

Be the person that you would want to have in your band and hang around with.

Congratulations on figuring out what you want to do with the rest of your life.

I decided to stick with sax around your age.

 

[jazzcatJr95]

Regarding LateNiteSax's suggestions on how to spend your money wisely learning your craft, first - no argument.

But you have to be honest with yourself. Do you have the discipline, motivation and organisational skills to do it that way? Do you know how to prioritise what to learn and when? Because if you don't, you will also be throwing your time and money away.

One thing school does is organise for you a heirarchy of studies and it concentrates in one place and time, teachers, courses and ensembles which makes the process of absorbing a lot in a short time very efficient. And with an academic system of accountability like it is, it also privides a degree of what I call, "impose discipline".

Also, if you believe that those first post-high school years are to be spent not just learning music but learning other subjects, participating in other arts, associating and collaborating with other arts projects, etc, again, a university campus provides a concentration of opportunities.

To reiterate, I'm not saying you can't get these experiences or learning outside of school. I'm just calling attention to the flip side of the coin and also that you have to take into consideration your own character. If you do decide to attend university, you need to be very creative about your financing and you should begin right now researching the various possibilities and start to develoop a plan.

Yeah, ive been really thinking a lot about where i'm going to go and how i'm going to pay for it, but in this day and age, it's impossible to get a job thats worth having without some sort of a college degree. so if i were to not make it as a musician i would always have that to fall back on for a while, though lets hope that doesnt happen haha.

My director has mentioned possibly taking me to various "conferences" around the eastern seaboard. from what i gather, hundreds of america's best music school reps gather here, meet me, hear me play, and if they want me badly enough, i can possibly get anywhere up to a full scholarship to go to that school, though i need to practice a TON more if i'm gonna be doing that.

basically right now im trying to get a name out there for myself and figure a way to get gigs that will actually get me money so i'm not stuck doing wood which i despise. I'm fairly certain i'm going to college (my parents would kill me otherwise). though i don't exactly have a passion for playing classical saxophone, i do enjoy and have a certain ammount of respect for it. But ultimately that's not where i want to end up. I wanna be able to make a living off of playing my sax as much as possible. right now, my life is the saxophone. however, eventually i will get married and would like to have a family, so i also need the saxophone to be my life. (if that makes any sense.)

 

[empressdiver]

You can check out craigslist.net for ads for sax players for an R&B band. Also go to the local music stores and check with the bulletin board and staff. Go to the bars with visiting bands to get ideas on how to play and chat with the musicians.
Take your sax to the bars that have jam nights and sit in so you meet other musicians.

It probably won't take too long before you connect with a band and are doing gigs and getting paid.

 

[jazzcatJr95]

You can check out craigslist.net for ads for sax players for an R&B band. Also go to the local music stores and check with the bulletin board and staff. Go to the bars with visiting bands to get ideas on how to play and chat with the musicians.
Take your sax to the bars that have jam nights and sit in so you meet other musicians.

It probably won't take too long before you connect with a band and are doing gigs and getting paid.

Finally! someone who actually answers the original question! haha. (not to say no one else has been helpful!!) i suppose that is a really good idea. i never really thought much about reading the posters at my music store, though i see them every time i go there. it would be so much easier if i actually had a car and my liscence though! Once i get them i'll be sure to actually go and maybe gather the courage to ask to sit in. Thanks for the awesome suggestions!

 

[alljoe]

That might not be just for high school