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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I switched from tenor to bari a few weeks ago. I first played a Lebayle Jazz 7* on my Selmer Mk7. The intonation was pretty spot on. Even regions where one would expect intonation problems (middle D, palm keys, altissimo) didn’t have any. I was, however, looking for more power and switched to a Lebayle Rosie 8. The piece plays great and way better than the Jazz did. But it does tune very flat. To get it in tune, I have to push it way past the cork, to the point where the saxophone isn’t even close to in tune with itself anymore (palm keys extremely sharp, notes that only use the upper stack sharper than notes that use the upper and lower stack of keys). Is there anything I can do about this, besidides starting to look for another mouthpiece?
 

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Forum Contributor 2015-17
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I have a Rosie 8 that plays well in tune on my Yanagisawa bari pushed in a normal distance, most of the cork. I wonder if maybe yours is an extra-long version, made to play on older instruments? Is it metal or rubber? Would you measure the total length?
 

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Well, I don't know anything about these specific mouthpieces.

You don't have any baritone chops yet. Personally, I would work on airstream and support development rather than chasing setup. I would also start out with a standard piece (HR Link: Meyer; Berg, etc.) and learn how to blow through the horn.

When you said "Looking for more power I changed mouthpieces after playing baritone for a few weeks" that set off my "weak tenor sized airstream and pinched tenor size embouchure" detector. Power on baritone sax does not come from high baffle duck call screeching buzzy mouthpieces, it comes from getting a proper breath and managing it properly. Long tones, baby.
 

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LeBayle's Rosie is (was?) a large chambered, low rollover, fairly dark mouthpiece. Or at least mine is.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have a Rosie 8 that plays well in tune on my Yanagisawa bari pushed in a normal distance, most of the cork. I wonder if maybe yours is an extra-long version, made to play on older instruments? Is it metal or rubber? Would you measure the total length?
It’s metal. The total length is 5,5 inches. As far as I know it was not made for older instruments.

Well, I don't know anything about these specific mouthpieces.

You don't have any baritone chops yet. Personally, I would work on airstream and support development rather than chasing setup. I would also start out with a standard piece (HR Link: Meyer; Berg, etc.) and learn how to blow through the horn.

When you said "Looking for more power I changed mouthpieces after playing baritone for a few weeks" that set off my "weak tenor sized airstream and pinched tenor size embouchure" detector. Power on baritone sax does not come from high baffle duck call screeching buzzy mouthpieces, it comes from getting a proper breath and managing it properly. Long tones, baby.
If my embouchure was pinched, I would have trouble with intonating sharp, not flat. Also, the Rosie is not a highbaffled piece. On the contrary. By powerful I meant „takes all the air I want to give it“. The Jazz felt like it had a limit regarding the amount of air it would take.
 

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Well, anyway, your second piece the one with intonation problems, is pushed too far in. What you are describing is exactly what happens when the mouthpiece is pushed too far in.

I will still stand by my recommendation to go with a standard mouthpiece to develop baritone chops and airstream first. After primarily playing baritone sax for the last 35 years, personally I don't have any trouble with my ordinary Meyer mouthpiece "taking all the air I can give it". Especially on baritone, new players and younger players would be far better served in my opinion by hours in a field practicing tonal development than by chasing sound through equipment. if you don't want to believe me, listen to the Ellington band with Harry Carney, or Charlie Fowlkes or John Williams with Basie.
 

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The LeBayle Rosie is not a radical design. It's very similar to some Links that I have.

Will measure mine when I get back home, out of town right now, but 5.5 inches does not seem overly long.
 

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What Bari are you playing?
 

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What Bari are you playing?
He/she mentioned a Selmer MkVII in the initial post but not sure if he/she was referring to his/her Tenor or Baritone.
I sense that it is a modern rather than vintage horn if the piece needs to go on that far.
Having said that, I can play a modern Yamaha Baritone with the same huge chambered pieces I use on my The Martin without any issues.
Granted the piece needs to go on the neck further, but still plays in tune with itself.
 

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I have a few with extended shanks specifically to play on an old Conn, and even those are usable on the Yanagisawa too. Semi-ironically, one of those extra long pieces is a LeBayle Jazz.
 

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Oh, I thought his tenor was the mark VII.
 

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It seems obvious to me that he's talking about playing two different mouthpieces on his Selmer baritone, but I have been wrong before.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It seems obvious to me that he's talking about playing two different mouthpieces on his Selmer baritone, but I have been wrong before.
Yes, the baritone is a MKVII. The Rosie is only barely longer than the Jazz mouthpiece. The Jazz does have a smaller chamber though.
 

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I agree, the problem is an embouchure one, your embouchure is tight rather than relaxed, therefore your pitch gets too high and as a consequence you are shifting the mouthpiece back to the point that it almost falls off.

You may very well disagree but very often people who switch to baritone have this and if you look around you will find that lots of people historically have complained of precisely the same, so there are way more chances that you are like them that the mouthpiece is at fault. Besides, why starting on a Lebayle when you have yet to get used to the horn?
 

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This doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me.
My thoughts are that you are pushing the piece on too far, trying to bring your chosen note into tune which is throwing the rest of the horn out.
I generally look for a point where D1 and D2 are in tune and the rest then are pretty close also (for me).
Something I have also found when using my pickle barrel or dill pickle pieces on my Yamaha, is I will deliberately start flat and then move the piece further on the cork until I can get an easy jump from D2 to D3 without embouschure altering.
I have found that at this point if I play with tuner, I am usually pretty close over the whole range.
The chambers in these pieces are way bigger than the Rosie pieces.
 

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I agree, the problem is an embouchure one, your embouchure is tight rather than relaxed, therefore your pitch gets too high and as a consequence you are shifting the mouthpiece back to the point that it almost falls off.

You may very well disagree but very often people who switch to baritone have this and if you look around you will find that lots of people historically have complained of precisely the same, so there are way more chances that you are like them that the mouthpiece is at fault. Besides, why starting on a Lebayle when you have yet to get used to the horn?
Except that it plays flat for him, not sharp.
 

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Mark VII bari? I know there are some that swear that they exist but I believe Selmer says that they don't.

"only the alto and tenor saxophones saw the light of day; the soprano and baritone “Mark VII” prototypes started during this period were instead used as the basis for the “Super Action 80” line."

source: https://www.selmer.fr/histdetail.php?id=76
 
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