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Discussion Starter #1
I thought I've seen all keilwerths there is... I own about 10 keilwerths myself. But here I've found a new one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Keilwerth-...083316?hash=item1cac32a074:g:rMcAAOSwYgFapTr7

It has the JKG logo... it's named king solo...
It has bevelled toneholes... I've never seen a keilwerth without rolled th. But I do remember that keilwerth stopped with rth for a while after/during the end of WWII due to loss of tools or something like that. They moved a lot within europe during that time so that's easily explained.

And then we have the beautiful keyguards. My guess is that they where added later by a tech!??
Body to bell brace isn't right either.
The right hand side keyes are not standard but they do exist on other keilwerths as well. My two favorite keilwerths has angled side keys as well.

Here's an old thread about a king solo that actually looks like a keilwerth:
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?86467-King-Modell-Solo-Tenor

Now I'm done ranting about this beautiful horn. But my questions remains so far.
 

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I have seen this kind of saxophones before.

I don’t know whether this is a Julius Keilwerth Made Saxophone but the distinctive guards and left hand pinky plateau and right hand pinky keys seem to be from other factories (Huller?).

The Keyguards that you show are not custom but are standard for this model (seen them before) although there are also king solo with more usual guards.


 

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Interesting horn. Whatever it is, I'm sure its vintage and came in that configuration. The 'beveled' tone holes are significant, because it means they are separate pieces soldered-in rather then being extruded from the body material (drawn tone holes). The bevel is done to reduce the thickness of the sealing ring to promote a better seal. Saxes with soldered-in tone rings tend to have a broader, warmer sound. Its certainly a horn I would like to play with - sort of a Martin with more modern keys.
 

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The King Modell Lus were King models produced right after WWII, as far as I can tell. OP's SOTW link shows that at the King Solo and was available during WWII. They were also available for a year or two after WWII.

I think it's a good possibility that the horns were assembled from parts available from before the war. "The New King" models that immediately followed these horns were considerably less elaborate, but also had soldered beveled toneholes. The link OP has to the SOTW thread on other Keilwerth Solo is interesting because that horn does have the side "oval" keys, while the one on Helen's/my pic gallery doesn't. The oval side keys were on an earlier King model, so that might give my "pre war" theory some more ammo, especially if the horn in that thread is sn 18xxx: that's 1941/42.

OP, your ebay link now goes to a 1965 Conn, which is amusing on several levels :D. Edit: found the horn. Put it in my gallery.
 

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...I've never seen a keilwerth without rolled tone holes...
Well Keilwerth definitely made saxophones with straight tone holes. The famous SX 90 was available with rolled holes or straight.
 

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Well Keilwerth definitely made saxophones with straight tone holes. The famous SX 90 was available with rolled holes or straight (extruded).
For the SX90, R = rings brazed onto the chimney rather than true rolled holes and plain = drawn rather than extruded.

Rhys
 

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I have seen owned and sold lots of Keilwerths without rolled toneholes.

All the Toneking Special ( they made the Couf with rolled toneholes) and most Toneking IV have no rolled toneholes.

Of course the serie SX90 ( as opposed to SX90 R) has no rolled toneholes.

Whether rolled toneholes are of any use is debatable (and has been here on SOTW) one thing is for sure, IF a repairer has pushed in a tonehole for whatever reason while quickly adjusting a saxophone THEN it will be very difficult to ever level it.

You can’t easily find a rolled tonehole.
 

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For the SX90, R = rings brazed onto the chimney rather than true rolled holes and plain = drawn rather than extruded.

Rhys
Thanks Rhys. I just corrected my post.
 

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All the Toneking Special ( they made the Couf with rolled toneholes) and most Toneking IV have no rolled toneholes.
I have to disagree - I have an early TK Special with rolled tone holes. However, personally i'm not really keen on having rolled toneholes...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have seen owned and sold lots of Keilwerths without rolled toneholes.

All the Toneking Special ( they made the Couf with rolled toneholes) and most Toneking IV have no rolled toneholes.

Of course the serie SX90 ( as opposed to SX90 R) has no rolled toneholes.

Whether rolled toneholes are of any use is debatable (and has been here on SOTW) one thing is for sure, IF a repairer has pushed in a tonehole for whatever reason while quickly adjusting a saxophone THEN it will be very difficult to ever level it.

You can’t easily find a rolled tonehole.
I was talking about older keilwerths (pre couf superba II)… they are almost always with rolled toneholes. I have many of them… only one without RTH.
But yes there seem to be a few exceptions. Especially around the end of WWII.

Regards
 
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