I have a small bottle of key oil from Yamaha that I got in the early 70's. From its consistancy and lubing abilities I suspect that's whale oil. I cherish it and only use it on my flutes. It's the best I've ever seen. I use Selmer oil on my saxs. What do you use ?
lubing woodwinds
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That's interesting. Most people seem to believe that synthetic oils are better for lubing woodwinds. Ultimax, Alisyn, and Hetman produce good key oils. Don't use 3-in-1 oil, as it gums up eventually.
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I believe that the synthetic oils mentioned by the last poster have surpassed whale oil.
I also reckon that at lest three viscosities are needed to do justice to the various pivots in woodwinds.
I somehow doubt that Yamaha would have sold whale oil without advertising it as such.
Most "accessory" products with supposedly respected brand names on them, such as Buffet cork grease, and Selmer oil, I have found to be substandard. I think Yamaha just may be an unusual exception.
I also reckon that at lest three viscosities are needed to do justice to the various pivots in woodwinds.
I somehow doubt that Yamaha would have sold whale oil without advertising it as such.
Most "accessory" products with supposedly respected brand names on them, such as Buffet cork grease, and Selmer oil, I have found to be substandard. I think Yamaha just may be an unusual exception.
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On student level instruments I use a mixture of 30 weight oil and PB Blaster. The little buggers always march in the rain at Friday night football games. Since I've switched to this mixture I see a lot fewer frozen rods and screws on the school horns I work on. On pro level horns I use a 50/50 mix of STP and 30 weight oil. Silky smooth!!!!!!!!
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Bad key oil has resin in it and bad cork grease is too thin and soaks into the cork making it come unstuck from the tenon.
I use gearbox oil (and definitely NOT automatic transmission fluid!) on all screws on clarinets and saxes as well as for point screws on oboes, flutes and piccolos and a light resin-free oil (eg. sewing machine oil) for rods on flutes, piccolos and oboes - if it needs to be thicker, a couple of drops of gearbox oil does the trick.
As for cork grease, I still swear by La Tromba as it's like axle grease.
I use gearbox oil (and definitely NOT automatic transmission fluid!) on all screws on clarinets and saxes as well as for point screws on oboes, flutes and piccolos and a light resin-free oil (eg. sewing machine oil) for rods on flutes, piccolos and oboes - if it needs to be thicker, a couple of drops of gearbox oil does the trick.
As for cork grease, I still swear by La Tromba as it's like axle grease.
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"I never gave much thought to the quality of the key oil or cork grease I use, I just assumed it was all the same.
What's the difference between a good and bad one? "
The big enemies of key oil are a gummy residue left behind after the more volatile components have gradually evaporated, and also moisture absorption which assists rusting of any steel. Typical engine oils usually contain a range of additives because they are especially formulated to carry out specific tasks in a pretty darn hostile environment of extreme pressure &/or temperature. They are often in places where there are no copper alloys to react with, so sulphur-containing additives are OK. Evaporation is seldom an issue. Residues might be filtered out. Detergents are often added to accommodate moisture, as a product of combustion, whereas in instrument pivots we want to exclude moisture.
Viscosity is important for each type of situation, eg a pivot point screw with higher pressure on a sax is very different from the low pressure, high surface-areas in the pivot tubes of delicate mechanism. WE want oil to stay put (in capillary gaps) rather than 'migrate" over a key to collect dust, which wicks the oil away from where it should be. We want the oil to have surface-clinging properties to protect steel parts from rust in a damp environment. When we "wick" the oil in form the cracks in the mechanism we often have to make compromises with the oil's viscosity, whereas the ideal is to remove each key to get the oil where it is needed.
As for olive oil! Jeez! Look on the pantry shelf at the sticky residue, like half-set varnish, that vegetable oils polymerise to, given time and especially with the encouragement of light and oxygen. Put that goop in a large-surface area pivot tube, and the spring will barely operate the key. It is also quite difficult to remove because it solvents work very poorly on it.
What's the difference between a good and bad one? "
The big enemies of key oil are a gummy residue left behind after the more volatile components have gradually evaporated, and also moisture absorption which assists rusting of any steel. Typical engine oils usually contain a range of additives because they are especially formulated to carry out specific tasks in a pretty darn hostile environment of extreme pressure &/or temperature. They are often in places where there are no copper alloys to react with, so sulphur-containing additives are OK. Evaporation is seldom an issue. Residues might be filtered out. Detergents are often added to accommodate moisture, as a product of combustion, whereas in instrument pivots we want to exclude moisture.
Viscosity is important for each type of situation, eg a pivot point screw with higher pressure on a sax is very different from the low pressure, high surface-areas in the pivot tubes of delicate mechanism. WE want oil to stay put (in capillary gaps) rather than 'migrate" over a key to collect dust, which wicks the oil away from where it should be. We want the oil to have surface-clinging properties to protect steel parts from rust in a damp environment. When we "wick" the oil in form the cracks in the mechanism we often have to make compromises with the oil's viscosity, whereas the ideal is to remove each key to get the oil where it is needed.
As for olive oil! Jeez! Look on the pantry shelf at the sticky residue, like half-set varnish, that vegetable oils polymerise to, given time and especially with the encouragement of light and oxygen. Put that goop in a large-surface area pivot tube, and the spring will barely operate the key. It is also quite difficult to remove because it solvents work very poorly on it.
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A warning on using vegetable oils (and I'll include household plant derived oils and olive oil in that even though olives are technically fruits) - a customer brought her (US made) B&H 400 flute into here I used to work as all the keys had seized up. It had been oiled with olive oil which had gummed up the entire mechanism. Added to this problem, the knock pins were made from phosphor bronze and were also completely solid and with phosphor bronze being soft, they weren't the easiest of things to push out without flaring the ends. I immersed the keys over a couple of days in solvent (trichloroethane) in an attempt for it to seep into the mechanism to hopefully dissolve the gummy mess within, which only did bugger all to free anything. In the end I used good old heat and pulled the keys off the steels that way. It took a lot of cleaning up to make it all run smoothly again, so it was a reasonably costly lesson learnt.
And don't get bore oil and key oil mixed up either.
And don't get bore oil and key oil mixed up either.
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I know several techs that use automotive lubricants on woodwind mechanisms. From what I've read, the worst culprit in automotive lubes can be sulfur, which is destructive to brass. There are synthetic automotive lubes that are sulfur-free, but its hard to say what else is in there that might be damaging to brass. Then there's the additives that Gordon mentions.
I use Alisyn and Ultimax. I also have synthetic gear lube that I dip rods and screws in before storing them.
I use Alisyn and Ultimax. I also have synthetic gear lube that I dip rods and screws in before storing them.
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This is akin to the 'lead in brass' debate.
Yep, the stuff is there - but it's not that accessible.
Ditto with automotive lubricants - the additives are designed to kick in when the going gets tough...such as high temperature, high pressure etc.
An instrument will never see these kind of extremes, so the additives are immaterial.
In fact the requirement for key lube are quite crude, given that the mechanism itself is quite crude in engineering terms.
It need only be viscous enough to stay put and thin enough not to slow the mechanism. Many saxophone manufacturers use grease - which might sound like it would slow the mechanism down...but in practise it doesn't.
As good as a high-spec instrument lube is, there's little point in using one on top of whatever's already in the keywork. It will mix with whatever's been used to lube the keys previously and you'll lose any of the supposed benefits save for the viscosity...so unless you're prepared to strip and degrease the action there really isn't that much point.
Whatever you decide to use the most important factor by far is that you actually use it regularly. Neglecting to oil the action is about the most damaging thing you can do to it.
Regards,
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This article will help you figure out where the oil goes and how much to use:
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/oilaction.htm
Regards,
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But it certainly slows down flutes and oboes!
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Hence my confining my statement to saxes.
Regards,
Regards,
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Sometimes it does. I think I only remember seeing it on Chinese makers, but the grease turned to something like gumi very fast, a few months from new. It slowed down the hinges, especially stack keys. Very strange they use this type of grease.
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For sure - when I say 'grease' I don't mean the gravy that's used on some Chinese horns, rather the stuff that's used on Yamahas etc.
A splosh of cigarette lighter fluid followed by a drop of oil seems to sort it for quite some time, though removing it and re-lubing is the best bet.
Regards,
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