[PaulGH]

When I compare a low Bb to a low A, I find that I like the aesthetics far more on the Low Bb horn. It looks more like a saxophone and less like a brass tube. Honestly, the impression seems to come from examining the bell, which is lower and has a bigger "throat" where it begins to flare (in my ability to estimate). The longer flared section acts as something of a High-pass filter if my physics is correct, and it gives the bell notes a similar tone to the higher notes on the sax.

On a low A, the bell is there, but the flare seems to be no larger than on the low Bb. I suspect in my mind that it should be considerably larger since the tube itself has to get larger just for that little half step.

Why doesn't someone try to recapture the low Bb look in a low A? it would involve a little rethink on the keys, since a bell key would be relocated to the body tube, and the body tube would gain 4 inches or so in length, but the reward could be huge. First, you would lose that "tube look" and regain the sax profile. Also, we could rethink the bell diameter, length and flare to be designed for a Low A instead of the low Bb. Finally, it might recapture some of that sound that low Bb bari players want that make them refuse the low A.

I can't be the first person to think about this, but it isn't easy to pick out a good search parameter for this either. Why isn't someone building this? It isn't so radical, is it?

 

[Stephen Howard]

I suspect the weight would be a significant issue.

Regards,

 

[Henry D]

Aside from a substantial mechanism makeover from mid-stack down, a completely new body tube, a completely new bow, a completely new bell, a horn which no existing case would fit, and changes which might affect the sound- whether for good or ill... or merely different, is an unknown- it's a no brainer for a manufacturer to spend substantial money on given the current dismal state of musical instrument industry sales.

Interesting idea- but I can't see it being worth the effort myself. Merely a vote of one, of course- and though not all that significant for me aesthetics do count for many.

 

[spike421]

I suspect the weight would be a significant issue.

Regards,

And balance; you'd have a horn that had a 6" or so longer body tube which might present a problem for some players and playing situations. Plus, from the manufacturers standpoint: keywork redesign, body tube redesign, re-tooling, new case design, not many complaints (if any), so why bother. Plus they'd probably get complaints about the new design.

 

[ericdano]

They don't need to fix what is not broken.

 

[hakukani]

I'm more interested in sound than looks...

 

[paulwl]

The Conn 11M and the late low-A Buescher 400 were a kludge in the direction Paul is talking about - but each used a cylindrical tube for low B to allow the low-Bb bell to be chopped off and refitted. Some find the low end intonation and response ok, some don't.

11M, late '60s

400, late '70s

 

[MPL]

Well, there is the Rampone baritone, which appears to have a more tapered and less cylindrical bell: http://saxforte.com/saxophones/Eb_Baritone/Eb_Bari_Rampone_/R1_Jazz_Bari_Gold/2009AU7a.jpg

 

[jmathesonjr]

My understanding from talking to both manufacturers and repair techs is that the bell on the Low A Bari is the way it is to IMPROVE the intonation of the lower end due to the added key. The first Low A Conns were made from Low Bb horns. The Bell was cut between the Low Bb and Low B key, a piece of straight pipe was inserted to create the new Low Bb key and to connect the two ends of the bell. The bigger bell of the Low Bb horn did give a little better sound, but created problems that caused the Low A horns to have a much smaller bell.

I think reshaping the sax would create more problems than the re-design would eliminate. As a matter of fact, the new twists and turns might make the whole thing too hard to play and ruin the sound.

Also, what you are proposing is more cosmetic in nature than anything. I think a reshaped Baritone Saxophone would make all the difference in sound and ease of playing as a redesigned bell engraving would.

The Low A Baris look like Low A Baris.

Face it the only aesthetic in a saxophone that counts is the sound. The rest is inconsequential.

 

[sursax]

I agree,Sound trumps aesthetics...

 

[BH9]

The Conn 11M and the late low-A Buescher 400 were a kludge in the direction Paul is talking about - but each used a cylindrical tube for low B to allow the low-Bb bell to be chopped off and refitted. Some find the low end intonation and response ok, some don't.

Didn't the Martin Magna low A have a continuous taper and monstrous bell instead of a cylindrical section? I want one of those horns.

 

[SaxTon]

I suppose I'm a dinosaur but I'll stick to my vintage Selmer VI Bb - except for some BB charts and a few sax quartet pieces which I can mostly manage if needed with a bell insert extention - it works fine for me with great sound and intonation (and looks good too). Never did not get a gig because of not having a low A bari. Honestly speaking I wouldn't mind having a low A bari as well but in no hurry.

 

[theneighbordubh]

Yes, the Magna has a continuous taper... and a ginormous bell diameter. Absolute monster. There are two modern cases that fit it. The Protec (and its knock-offs) and the MTS one that holds the horn upside down. Intonation is no hairier than the rest of the horn I suppose, but throw a large chamber mouthpiece on there and your brain vibrates, your eyes water, and everyone in the room turns their head during sound check.

 

[Christian1]

Well, there is the Rampone baritone, which appears to have a more tapered and less cylindrical bell: http://saxforte.com/saxophones/Eb_Baritone/Eb_Bari_Rampone_/R1_Jazz_Bari_Gold/2009AU7a.jpg

I thought that was a tenor at first look.

 

[stoneboro]

Well, there is the Rampone baritone, which appears to have a more tapered and less cylindrical bell: http://saxforte.com/saxophones/Eb_Baritone/Eb_Bari_Rampone_/R1_Jazz_Bari_Gold/2009AU7a.jpg

Just based on photos and one video, it looks like the Cannonball Big Bell Low A Bari flares out
(as opposed to up) a little more than most models I've seen. It could just be the angle from
which photos were taken. Anyone seen one side by side with another Low A Bari?

 

[Christian1]

Just based on photos and one video, it looks like the Cannonball Big Bell Low A Bari flares out
(as opposed to up) a little more than most models I've seen. It could just be the angle from
which photos were taken. Anyone seen one side by side with another Low A Bari?

Well it is a Big Bell model. So- the bell is big.

 

[BH9]

Yes, the Magna has a continuous taper... and a ginormous bell diameter. Absolute monster. There are two modern cases that fit it. The Protec (and its knock-offs) and the MTS one that holds the horn upside down. Intonation is no hairier than the rest of the horn I suppose, but throw a large chamber mouthpiece on there and your brain vibrates, your eyes water, and everyone in the room turns their head during sound check.

Do you have one? In the past those would appear on the market occasionally, but I haven't seen one for sale in a long time now.

 

[hgrail]

I sold one on this forum perhaps 2 years back. Great horn. Really didn't play any different than the '55 Martin Committee Bb horn I sold more recently - intonation most mostly good - and fussy on the typical The Martin notes. It was a bit heavier - but that's to be expected. I used a Reunion Blues gig bag to get it around -which fit fine. That horn would take everything that I could give it and ask for more. It's great to be able to compete with the brass section in a big band with one of those. Monster horn - I hope it's getting some good play time these days-

 

[BH9]

I'm down to two baris right now, a silver True Tone and a new Yani, and I swear the TT is heavier. The TT is good top to bottom but it's strictly a backup now. I'm pretty much cured of Bb bari love.

 

[RobBari]

Great idea by PaulGH! The rethinking has already been done, and not just to low A - this model goes to a (bari's) low F - it's called a "bass sax."

Seriously, bass and bari are only a fourth apart, so going to bass isn't that radical a shift - and almost any bass will sound better on any note below a bari's D. I play an A bari because I sometimes like to play cello music - but in terms of good acoustics, the A extension is sort of a kludge.