[Morten Seifert]

Hi there,

Yesterday I was at a woodwind shop in DK and asked the guy if he had any interesting old saxes in store.

Yes, he replied and pulled out the strangest sax I ever saw: A nickel plated Keilwerth tenor with low A (!). It was engraved "Martin Grünewald" on its bell.

What was even more surprising: This horn had a huge and beautiful tone. And it played better and easier than many tenors I've tried. But man, it looked strange with its long baritone-like bell and the low A.

The guy was a clarinet specialist and knew little about the horn.

I've heard of rare altos with low A (Ornette Coleman's Selmer) - but never of tenors.

Has anyone in this forum seen or played one of these horns? Or is it a custom-built loner? Should I dare buy it? And what is a strange horn like that worth?

 

[JCBigler]

Re: Low A Keilwerth sax

Pics or it didn't happen :tsk:

Two points:

1) yes you should buy it
2) since this guy is a clarinet player, you should be able to swindle him down to a good price.

Of course then you are required to post pics, many, large, high quality pics detailing ever square centimeter of the horn.

 

[kryz]

Re: Low A Keilwerth sax

Let me google this for you

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/archive/index.php/t-49997.html

http://www.yellowmap.de/Details/9Z5_A1o78ifRxrgi_RdFhw==.aspx

Draw your own conclusions and/or maybe try to give the guy a call...

 

[JCBigler]

Re: Low A Keilwerth sax

He's not talking about the mythical low A bass sax, he's talking about a low A tenor.

 

[JayeLID]

Re: Low A Keilwerth sax

I think you missed Kryz's point: He was directing us to info on Grunewald. Translation of the second link is:

"Martin Grünewald, The Saxophone Workshop can be found at the site Nachtweide 53 in 64569 Nauheim. The company assigns to itself and its offerings in the industry Musical instruments and repairs. Martin Grünewald, The Saxophone Workshop was not rated. For a quick check with the car you can drive with the route planner or visit us on the map location".

That is pretty cool, a low A Tenor. Although a bit less sensical than a Low A Alto or Baritone...because a Low A Tenor allows a concert G. Sorta, like...OK, so what ?

But sorta cool, too....and if it was a Keilwerth horn, that's extra-cool and I agree...grab it immediately if not sooner.

 

[rhysonsax]

I'm the owner of Martin Grunewald's low A bass which he made as a project when at Keilwerth, based on their SX90. http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/Saxes/Bari/Keilwerth_SX90_special_bass.htm

I bet that low A tenor is lovely - if you don't buy it, I'd be interested, so I could get the low A tenor to go with my low A alto, bari and bass !

Let us know how it goes.

Rhys

 

[Pete Thomas]

Re: Low A Keilwerth sax

He's not talking about the mythical low A bass sax,

Which would be this one:

(demonstrated here in the Vatican)

 

[Morten Seifert]

Re: Low A Keilwerth sax

Hello again,

Couldn't resist writing to Martin Grünewald to get some more info on this particular instrument. A few hours later, I had the kind reply below (original German text below - sorry for any bad translation).

Quite interestingly, he built this sax for himself in 1996.

I attach photos Martin sent me of his current (very beautiful) horn and one of the low A tenor bell (to prove that it exists).

The instrument was created in 1996 as a single piece. A special feature is the bow with a larger C-side hole, which is soldered with Hartlotsilber. (as well as the tone holes on the bell). Keilwerth tenor saxophones always had a problem with "Matt sounding D2", because the C-side hole was too small. The bell to low A could be viewed as a gimmick, but if one plays with guitarists who play without notes, you realize that a low-A often does not sound bad. The first assembly was done without nickel plating or engraving. My former saxophone teacher said it should be bare (without paint) so that the good sound was not changed. But when the instrument turned green, I decided to nickelplate it. The engraving is done by myself. The skilled person sees that I am an instrument maker, not an engraver.
Today, I play a similar tenor and with a large C tone hole but without the deep A. In any case there are no notes for this. I hope I could help. I attach photos of my current tenor.

View attachment 33302 View attachment 33304 View attachment 33303

Also, das Instrument ist 1996 als Einzelstück entstanden. Merkmal ist der Bogen mit einem vergrößerten C-Tonloch, das mit Hartlotsilber aufgelötet ist. (wie auch die Tonlöcher am Schallstück). Keilwerth Tenorsaxophone hatten immer das Problem mit dem" Matt klingenden D2", weil das C-Tonloch akustisch gesehen eine zu kleine Bohrung aufwies. Das Schallstück bis Tief A könnte man als Spielerei betrachten, wenn man jedoch Sessions mit Gitaristen betreibt, die ohne Noten spielen, merkt man das ein Tief A oftmals nicht schlecht klingt. Die erste spielfähige Montage war ohne Vernickelung und Gravur. Mein damaliger Saxophonlehrer sagte man soll es so lassen (ohne Lack) damit der gute Sound nicht verändert wird. Damit das Instrument nicht so grün anläuft, habe ich mich dann doch entschlossen es noch zu vernickeln. Die Gravur habe ich selbst eingraviert, der Fachman sieht das ich Instrumentenmachermeister aber kein Graveur bin. Ich spiele heute ein ähnliches Tenor auch mit großem C-Tonloch aber ohne Tief A . Gibt ja keine Noten dafür. Ich hoffe, ich konnte weiterhelfen. Im Anhang mein jetziges Tenor.

 

[JCBigler]

Sweet! Now this thread has some interesting info on it. I still want to see some pics of the final, fully assembled instrument though...

 

[JCBigler]

I bet that low A tenor is lovely - if you don't buy it, I'd be interested, so I could get the low A tenor to go with my low A alto, bari and bass !

***? You have a Keilwerth low A alto also?

Pics or it didn't happen

 

[brasscane]

What shop in DK has it for sale? I would like to check it out. Thanks.

 

[soybean]

Tenors have been built down to low Ab and low G.

 

[rhysonsax]

***? You have a Keilwerth low A alto also?

Pics or it didn't happen

Selmer for the alto and bari, Grunewald (Keilwerth) for the bass.

Rhys

 

[JCBigler]

Selmer

...oh......

 

[Saxman96]

Here is a picture of a brazillian low G tenor:

Here are it's interesting mechanisms- link to image:
http://cmelodysax.co.uk/blogfiles/brazil-low-g-tenor-keys.jpg

The manufacturer of this saxophone specializes in extensions.

Who made this rather strange horn?
Lopes Instrumentos

 

[Saxman96]

Tenors have been built down to low Ab and low G.

Exactly!