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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Whatup y'all....been playing on a Selmer USA low A (model 156 I believe) bari for years that's been getting the job done, but at this point it needs lots of work and wondering if maybe it's time for a shift up a step, rather than putting significant money into this one. Not going to go too crazy money-wise because most of my work is tenor/alto, but both Weltklang and Bauhaus Walstein have piqued my interest. All other things even (cost, playing condition, etc.), has anyone played more than one of these 3 horns, so as to be able to give a comparison in terms of tone/intonation? Just for reference, I got my Selmer originally for $1000 I believe, and could get ahold of either a Weltklang or Bauhaus for around $2000, but none locally that I could play-test first.

And just as a frame of reference, my tastes tend to lean toward vintage horns, specifically on tenor and alto I play Buescher 400 TH&C's that I like better than any Conn/King/Selmer or modern horn that I've tried.

Anyway, is it worthwhile to switch up to one of those horns (Weltklang or Bauhaus)? Are they going to sound better than my 156, or should I just dump that money into my current horn and end up with the same or better result?

FYI currently playing on a Barkley hybrid jazz mouthpiece that's pretty awesome, with Rigottis.

(Side note: I've been dreaming about tracking down a low A dolnet bari, but those seem so hard to come by that I'm thinking I should just postpone that dream for the forseeable future)
 

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Very different animals!

Low A American horns (prior to the ’60) are very rare and sought after.

Weltklang and Bauhaus (despite their names) are a world apart, quite literally. One being made in the former DDR (the last ones made in 1990) and the other one (contemporary) in China and then imported to the UK, set up and then distributed.

Totally different construction (and price!).

Wetklangs are normally half the price of a NEW Bauhaus. Weltklangs have also a very different keywork ( the low A activator is both at the back by the octave and at the front left hand plateau) and their older construction has, for some, more intonation quirks than for others. They are naturally more clunky that a Bauhaus would be. How ever if you buy one in playable state you may spend around €1500

Low A Dolnets are not all that impossible to find. If you want I can get you in touch with someone in the NL who has one.
 

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I worked in a horn section right beside a Selmer/Buescher/Bundy low A bari - they're all the same horn, Selmer USA's version of the Buescher. I played the thing a few times and I will never forget the huge, booming low end on that horn. Just look at the bell - twice as big as a modern bari. True, they made it the easy way by simply taking the low Bb bell and putting an extension on the lower end, and it is not a very ergonomic baritone - but I do not believe, having owned a Chinese low A since 2015, that you will be impressed with one after playing the 'tank'. The Chinese baris can be good depending on who made it and to what specification, but the Buescher low A is a one-of-a-kind baritone. I think if I had one of those and was used to it, I think I would spend the money on getting it put right and try to keep it that way.
Just wondering if you've ever had any trouble getting your clothes caught in the action behind the lower stack? I might put a clothes guard on it if I had one.
Another monster low A is the Martin Magna - more ergo-friendly and just as great as the Selmer USA, but incredibly rare and expensive at this point. The same guy who had the Buescher brought in a Magna one night that he borrowed and it was unbelievable too.
 

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PS: another interesting one is the Vito made by Yanagisawa. You can find these from time to time and they are usually affordable. Good-sounding horns, maybe not as 'big' a sound as the Buescher but probably a cut above most Chinese horns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Milandro, thanks for the input, most of those differences I'm already aware of, in terms of construction/origin/build style, and I'm definitely no stranger to funky keywork...my Selmer has the double-low-A, with the extra pinky key going outward rather than down like the Weltklang, and some near-impossible pinky jumps going between low B/Bb/C#. I'm much more concerned with sound issues; on my horn while the bottom end sounds huge, there are some issues that I know are inherent to all saxophones (especially baris) but seem to be worse than they should be, such as poorly speaking and hard-to-tune low Bb/B, splatty sounding low E to G range, and some middle range stuffiness....all things that are going to be always present to some extent but exacerbated on cheaper horns. I seem to remember playing around on some real high end baris that did not suffer nearly as much from these things, and also had a richer, fuller, darker tone than mine. So I guess I'm wondering if these specific horns might offer improvements in those areas. I know from what I understand these Selmer horns were basically Buescher 400's, but also that they were designed as simplified/cheapened/entry-level horns, so I'm wondering how much of that comes through in the tone/intonation.

By the way I would love a lead on that Dolnet, thanks!

And yeah Gary, I know what you mean about a lot of generic-ish Chinese baris, I've played some that I definitely just felt like bleh, nothin goin on here at all. But from lots of things I've read, the Bauhaus has a different thing going on in some way, with lots of favorable comparisons to much better-known makers, and more of a "vintage" sound...whatever on Earth that actually means. So I wonder if maybe I wouldn't be losing any power with that one....or a Weltklang or Dolnet for that matter. But I guess there's no way to know for sure without A-B'ing them. And yeah a Magna would be AWESOME, but hey...so would a mansion and a Tesla, right? And YES, the lack of a low action keyguard is an issue...not only getting levers caught on clothing and bending them out of alignment, but more than once on a sitting big band gig where I've positioned the horn at the exact wrong angle, and thanks to some input from my leg, out came a Bb instead of a B, or an A instead of a Bb. Good times.

For reference, the two specific horns I'm looking at right now are these:
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...axophone-%96-excellent!&highlight=bauhaus+low
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Weltklang-...253785620658?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10
 

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I would certainly consider the horn sold by Brasscane$2000 is a very good price for a horn like that.
He is a very reputable member here.

The Weltklang in Russia apperars to have the original wetklang pads which are not known to be very good or long lasting. So I would probably advise to factor in a repad (which with shipping costs will bring this much higher than the BW)/

I am going to ask the person whom I know knows about a low A Dolnet to give me his email address and then I will send it to you via a PM.
 

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I have not played or worked on a low A Buescher 400/Signet/Bundy but I have fooled around with the low Bb version on rare occasions. (I think the low A version came along only after they quit marking them "Buescher".)

I expect it's like the Conn 12M in that it needs careful setup and adjustment and then you can get the action pretty slick.

The Buescher 400 baritone sound is not like anything else. Martins and Conns sound very much alike to me (talking baritone only here). King similar but more "creamy" sound (if anyone can understand what I mean by that). The Buescher 400 is not so in-your-face but has a deep sound that will vibrate the whole room. It's like the upright bass of baritone saxes.

Because they created the low A by adding a cylindrical extension, it would be worth while to check intonation of those bottom four or five notes carefully. I suspect, however, that the actual real world effect is not that great.
 

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I don't know about the Bauhaus Walstein (I don't like Chinese companies using fake German names though), but the Weltklang and late Buescher low A baris are worlds apart, like Milandro already said. I don't remember specifics of the lowest notes (so they were probably okay) on the Buescher, but the main three differences to me were:

- The Weltklangs that I played had the clunkiest keywork ever (though the low A mechanism on my Grassi is pretty bad as well, in that respect). The 1970s Buescher 400 that I tested had decent keywork (but I was spoiled by my Martin at the time). The Bundy that I once briefly played was not that different.
- The Weltklangs have a wild intonation, even for bari saxes!
- The sound is very different between the late Bueschers/Bundys and the Weltklang baris that I tried. The Weltklang can make your audience run for the nearest air raid shelter, if you want them to. The Bueschers have a more refined thunderous sound.

I think a well setup Weltklang would be a great rock & roll horn. But the Buescher would be a bit more versatile, I guess.
 

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Bauhaus Walstein is NOT a Chinese brand , and they don’t use a fake name.

They import Chinese and Taiwanes saxophones which are then set up in England and then sold abroad

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/04334393-woodwind-brass-limited

The BW company started selling these saxophones a decade or so ago so any horn cannot be older than that ( they were originally branded only Walstein which was a brand made up by the combination of two surnames by Mr. Michael Walker and his partner Ms. Harriet Grünstein).

The name changed to Bauhaus Walstein because of some trademark registration issues (there was another Walstein brand somewhere).

Your best bet is to get in touch directly and ask.


http://www.woodwindandbrass.co.uk/cgi-bin/mf000001.pl?ACTION=SHOWFORM
 

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Bauhaus Walstein is NOT a Chinese brand , and they don’t use a fake name.

They import Chinese and Taiwanes saxophones which are then set up in England and then sold abroad
I stand corrected! Thanks for the additional info.

I have tested some Taiwanese baris in the past (Lien Cheng) and I was impressed with those.
 

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By the way I would love a lead on that Dolnet, thanks!
I am asking right now the person whom, I know, has one or can get you one. I will put the two of you in touch directly!
 
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