[hwang810]

Hi guys I'm trying to mess around with mouthpieces. How should I make something as loud and bright as possible? I remember seeing threads on loud mouthpieces but I would like to know what makes them loud and put them all together.
(I will be using cheap blanks, no legit mouthpiece will be harmed in the process)

Tip: Is there a magic number for the tip opening or should it be as large as possible? I have really soft reeds so I can play really big stuff.
Baffle: Any particular shape or just anything really high?
Material: What's the best among plastic, hr and brass? Those are relatively easy to work with.
Rail: Does it make a difference?
Facing length: long facing?
Window: I've heard that those rovners with a gigantic window play loud. Is it true?
Chamber: small, medium or large?

I appreciate your answers

 

[MojoBari]

As you go larger with tip opening, you can get louder but also darker. Some players compensate for large tip openings with their embouchure. They close them off some. So the key is to find an optimal medium to large tip opening for your playing abilities.

High baffles will also gradually become less effective if too high. They can be as high as the centerline of the mouthpiece bore (ala vintage Level Airs) and a little higher. But if you have a good air stream, higher than this can clip or close off the reed. Players also compensate for bright high baffles by using a lot of bottom lip dampening on the reed. So taking in a lot of mouthpiece and rolling out your bottom lip some will be louder on any mouthpiece. Perhaps wilder for intonation too though.

Side rails that are wide apart at the reed tip also are a bit louder. The reed still needs to cover from side to side.

Smaller throats add more focus which projects better. A slim duckbill shape may help you to take in more mouthpiece.

Long windows and different materials do not matter much. Though I think wood is not a great choice for a loud mouthpiece. Under cutting a window does the same thing as making it longer.

I’d say a Guardala LT Super King has all these features.

 

[1saxman]

You can compress all these variables into one attribute for fast elimination of possible mouthpieces; easy playing. Also called 'reed-friendliness', an easy-playing mouthpiece tends to be louder when you ramp up the air pressure. Guardalas are well-known for this attribute which is why Brecker went to DG when he needed a certain sound and volume, but with less pressure, because of a physical problem he had. Non 'reed-friendly' mouthpieces are what I call 'stuffy', and while they also can be loud and bright with enough air pressure, it requires a very narrow range of reed characteristics.
In the hunt for 'loud', make sure you don't get into 'shrill', which is very distasteful. Ideally it would be both capable of high volume and a pleasing sound. The upper register should retain certain mid-range partials so they aren't 'shrill', in other words.

 

[Sigmund451]

Im gonna be contrary here.

You want easy to work with, super loud, and bright.

We dont know what you currently play but frankly most players who are NOT experienced on high baffle pieces tend to sound terrible and lack control. Like the above post...loud can just be ugly and shrill.

IMHO most young to intermediate players do not have a good sound on these types of pieces. I have some unproduced designs for really loud lower baffle pieces...but guess what? They are loud, they are not shrill but they lack the essence that makes a great piece. On tenor at a .080 which is small they are WAY louder than a Link. But they are just loud...

The mouthpiece world is bound by the laws of physics...there are always trade offs.

If loud is what you need get a mic. Find whatever piece you actually sound good on and can control. If its not loud enough amplify it. If you just want loud get a 20 dollar rico high baffle piece.

 

[littlewailer]

The loudest mouthpiece I ever played was a Theo Wanne Amma 9. If I had the cash I would have bought it on the spot. I'm still on the search for one actually as now I see them selling for around $300 when they come up on the used market.

It was scary how loud it could get. But it was also the easiest mouthpiece to play softly as well. The dynamic range was ridiculous.

 

[GHawk]

Phil's being modest. His Isotope model is, without question, the loudest mouthpiece that I've ever played. It played nice soft, too. I don't know the dimensions, though. I just saw the word "loudest" in your title and it piqued my interest.

 

[Sigmund451]

If you are using blanks to experiment get some blue tac to experiment with temporary baffles

Generally small tips on high baffle pieces start to sound shrill

The possible list of variables is about endless...just see what happens

 

[Pete Thomas]

Phil's being modest. His Isotope model is, without question, the loudest mouthpiece that I've ever played. It played nice soft, too. I don't know the dimensions, though. I just saw the word "loudest" in your title and it piqued my interest.

Loudness is a weird thing. You can measure it in decibels, yet what sounds loud to the human ear is not necessarily the same.

Bright and edgy can sound loud when you play because it cuts over other instruments, but out front or on a recording it could be described as thin. And then again, what is the point of being loud if it doesn't sound as good?

Also, I think it is akin own thing that distortion in a sound can make it it seem to be louder to the human brain. This implies that a growl (which is basically distortion) can make a saxophone sound louder.

I would ask the OP what is it exactly you want to achieve in loudness? Because actual loudness is not the same as a "big" sound. All it means is to me is you are more dominant in the balance of instruments on stage and to me that has limited value because in the genres that such dominance is useful there is usually amplification (a microphone and PA) so that solves any loudness issues. So rely on the mic for loudness, rely on yourself and your mouthpiece etc. for the sound quality.

 

[High Fly]

Hi guys I'm trying to mess around with mouthpieces. How should I make something as loud and bright as possible? I remember seeing threads on loud mouthpieces but I would like to know what makes them loud and put them all together.
(I will be using cheap blanks, no legit mouthpiece will be harmed in the process)

Tip: Is there a magic number for the tip opening or should it be as large as possible? I have really soft reeds so I can play really big stuff.
Baffle: Any particular shape or just anything really high?
Material: What's the best among plastic, hr and brass? Those are relatively easy to work with.
Rail: Does it make a difference?
Facing length: long facing?
Window: I've heard that those rovners with a gigantic window play loud. Is it true?
Chamber: small, medium or large?

I appreciate your answers

.."using cheap blanks" to mess with: are you planning on creating actual facings, a la with sandpaper? If so, you better have all the right gauges and knowledge as to how to use them. Otherwise, you'll be creating a whole hot mess of variables.

Best to just get cheap Yamahas or Graftonites or something, and assuming their curves are basically true, you can just mess with internal dimensions, baffles, sidewalls, floors etc. with white tak or blue tak

You have to have some variables (relatively) locked down to do this stuff. Bad curves will mess everything up

Or, just say no to endless experimenting, and buy 3 ,4 good used pieces on trial and figure it out that way. JunkDude was very good for me in that regard; good service and selection and prices

 

[JL]

hwang, I just realized you are talking about messing around doing your own work on a mpc. Nothing wrong with that, but based on the questions you have asked, I doubt you'll get good results. If you don't know what a baffle does or what the facing does or anything about tip size, chamber, and how all these design features work together, you really aren't in a position to design a good mpc! Those who know what they are doing have spent many years learning the craft. If that's your goal, fine, but you'll need to spend a lot of time to gain the necessary experience and won't get it by reading these posts.

I once tried messing around putting in a baffle, using gum or other material that could be removed so I didn't destroy the mpc, and I tried every shape & size I thought possible. I was able to easily increase the volume, but nothing I did improved the sound of the mpc and everything I did messed up the tone quality. So I found out it's not an easy task. And I could probably answer your question in a basic way, but it won't help you design a good mpc. Here goes:

A higher baffle & larger tip will tend to make a mpc louder. But as Pete says, "loudness" is a relative term. If it means a big sound, then I think the large tip will help that. If it means a super bright sound that cuts through, then a high baffle with a small to med chamber and small to med tip will result in a shrill bright sound that will be loud, but highly unpleasant. And the loudest combination of features isn't likely to produce the best, or even a good, tone quality.

So finally, unless you are serious about learning the trade (and willing to spend the time, probably years) then I'd suggest trying out some of the great mpcs now on the market. Assuming you are looking for a good mpc to play as opposed to learning how to make a mpc. Just a thought....

 

[Pete Thomas]

Something I started doing about 10 years ago - the birth pangs of the PPT mouthpieces.

Tip: Is there a magic number for the tip opening or should it be as large as possible? I have really soft reeds so I can play really big stuff.

No magic number but if you want a high baffle I'd go at least 7*. my pref is around 8* - 10 depending on length of facing (which is just as important a part of the equation as tip size which is meaningless without the curve .

Material: What's the best among plastic, hr and brass? Those are relatively easy to work with.

Doesn't matter re: sound, especially if there is a baffle.

Rail: Does it make a difference?

You mean thickness? Not really unless you get to extremes.

Facing length: long facing?

I'd start with mediumish for learning

Window: I've heard that those rovners with a gigantic window play loud. Is it true?

If so I doubt it is to do with the widow.

Chamber: small, medium or large?

Yes.

Actually I prefer large chambers (especially with a baffle) - with small chambers you risk ending up with dodgy intonation. But then I am a relative beginner in this game so I like to play safe.

(I will be using cheap blanks, no legit mouthpiece will be harmed in the process)

While this is a noble intention it could take you longer. I started out experimenting with actual Bergs, Vandorens and Links. At least then you have a good basis and you have "blanks" with decent facings. Facings is really tricky, at least with baffles and chambers you can experiment non-destructively (to an extant - more so with baffles)

 

[captain blowhard]

Also consider playing into a microphone. That way you can easily fill the biggest venue and not be drowned out by other amplified instruments.

 

[turf3]

In my opinion, once you have a mouthpiece with a moderately open facing and some degree of baffle (there are many types), the most important ingredient in loudness is a strong mature well formed air stream that is channeled through a well developed strong but not tight embouchure. Trust me, a caricature mouthpiece with tiny chamber, huge facing, enormous baffle, etc., will just sound like poop. Why would you want to sound like extremely loud poop when you can sound like very loud good? And for that matter, when you hear it from the position of an audience, the caricature mouthpiece that seems so loud close up, probably won't have as much usable projection as the moderate-design piece being driven by someone who knows what they're doing.

If you put together the ingredients of a moderate design mouthpiece, airstream, and embouchure, and it's not loud enough, then you need electronic sound reinforcement, because you have left behind the realm where unreinforced saxophones can compete.