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Discussion Starter #1
I bought a Martin Committee III that has a loose neck. It does not easily pull off but it does shift very easily no matter how much you tighten the screw. My tech claims there is nothing that can be done. I don't believe him. :doubt: Should I?

Anyone have a similar experience with their Martin neck?
 

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Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
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If the tenon is leaking: the tenon must be unsoldered, expanded and fit, then resoldered. The teardrop part should stay attached to the neck. The teardrop is silver soldered to the ferrule; do not try to remove the teardrop. The tenon is soft soldered to the ferrule and the ferrule is soft soldered to the neck. Care must be taken to remove the tenon only. Done well, you will not see much lacquer damage.

The tenon must be done in a "can opener" style tenon expander such as the Ferree's H59. The tenon is too thick for "petal" style expanders. The tenon, free of the neck, does not leave much room for gripping when inserting into the tenon receiver (body) or a tenon shrinker (which is often used in conjuction with an expander to fine-tune the fit), so you may need to make something to solder it to for ease of working.


If the tenon is not leaking but simply won't stay in place, the problem is probably that the screw doesn't tightly screw in to the outside of the neck tenon receiver, either because the teardrop is bent out or the screw is damaged or worn. If you have an adjustable thumbrest, make sure that the neck screw and thumbrest screw have not been interchanged- one is longer than the other.

To test if the neck tenon is leaking, use one of these.



Edit: turned this into a quickie blog post: http://stohrermusic.com/?p=539
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for that explanation Matt. I get it now. I guess what my tech was trying to tell me is that he isn't going to do it and does not feel like explaining himself.
 

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Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
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No problem.

I was editing while you responded and added this: "If you have an adjustable thumbrest, make sure that the neck screw and thumbrest screw have not been interchanged- one is longer than the other."
 

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Distinguished SOTW Tech/Forum Contributor 2007
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are the tenon and the receiver both round, also how loose is it? you could try running a layer of plumbers teflon tape around the tenon and if you can get the neck tight that will tell you if its leaking (response will improve), this is what i use to test flute heads that are too small in larger bodies.

also depending on how much it needs to be expanded, you might see if you can find someone who can fit it by burnishing, this is how they fit flute heads and foot joints... though the tenon might be too thick for that.

or if the teflon tape works, just use that and leave it alone.

might be time to find a different tech.
 

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I bought a Martin Committee III that has a loose neck. It does not easily pull off but it does shift very easily no matter how much you tighten the screw. My tech claims there is nothing that can be done. I don't believe him. :doubt: Should I?

Anyone have a similar experience with their Martin neck?
A Martin neck can be fit if it is loose.

Hey Matt, I usually agree with what you write here, but this time I disagree with most of your post.

If the tenon is leaking: the tenon must be unsoldered, expanded and fit, then resoldered.
I disagree. The tenon needs to be unsoldered only for the can opener expander. It can be expanded using one of those expanders that are used from inside the tenon... which brings me to this...

The tenon must be done in a "can opener" style tenon expander such as the Ferree's H59. The tenon is too thick for "petal" style expanders.
I disagree. I have expanded Martin tenons this way with the "petal" expander, without unsoldering anything, with no problem and a good result. I haven't found the tenon to be too thick, it worked just found. Shrinking if necessary is not possible so when I expanded I did it especially slowly in tiny increments, took much longer than usual, but to make sure it wouldn't need shrinking.

To test if the neck tenon is leaking, use one of these.
You can use this (I have this tool for both alto and tenor) but I think it's a bad tool. At least the way it's made now, it's sometimes difficult if not impossible to use. I suggested an improvement to J.L. Smith which they said they would make in the next run. I see it is out of stock now so maybe they are going to make the new version soon.
 

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It is repairable and surprising that your tech is telling you its not, it could be as simple as the tenon being slighlty mushroomed in the middle to compleltey undersized and worn out. The repair could involve taking the tenon and socket of or expand and reshape the tenon, plus the reshaping and remanufacture maybe of the locking collar.

Long story short, yes repairable, no idea to a price without looking at it, take it to another tech
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I am going to take this to another tech that is much more customer friendly. Even though he is in only once a week, he is much more into explaining what's up. We'll see what I come up with. Thanks for the info everyone.
 

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Clarnibass, is your "petal" expander Ferrees or Boehm?

I find the Ferrees flute one great, but the springiness of the petals on the sax ones make them quite weirdly "squishy" to use. The adjustor adjusts pressure exerted inside the tenon, rather than an increment in diameter.
 

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My "petal" expanders are from Ferree's. I didn't know Boehm makes them. I know Allied has them too. I have the one for flute and the ones for alto and tenor saxophones. I've only used this for a Martin tenor, never tried a Martin alto. My Ferree's tenor sax "petal" tenon expander is strange, it is too big for many saxophones like Selmers. I don't know if this is a mistake, on purpose or what. So for some saxophones, like many old American ones (with bigger tenons than Selmer), it is great. I don't have to open it so much to expand, it is very close.
 

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Bring this old thread back... Could any of you experienced techs give an estimate of how much time it takes to fix a loose fitting committee III neck?

I have a committee alto here with leak in the neck. I would be interested to buy this horn and shoud give an offer. For that I am trying to get an estimate of how much work it would need to be in top condition.
 

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If in fact the 'petal' type expander works on III tenons, then it's an easy fix. Probably would take 30 minutes tops by a tech who has one of those tools (see conversation above).
 

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Since this thread was bumped maybe worth mentioning that since then I got a few custom size petal expanders to fit too small tenons or to counter too flexible fingers.

Re fitting that Martin neck tenon I'm guessing ten minutes to three hours :)
 

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By "pedal expander," are techs referring to something like this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-8-1-1-8-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

I have a neighbor that is a retired plumber and I'm fairly certain that he would have one of these. It looks like the 1 inch expander would just fit inside the Martin tenon. Going extreeeeemly slow and rotating it a lot might just fix my issue. I've been using Teflon tape for years for several reasons. 1) it works. 2) it is cheap. 3) my sax doesn't have to sit at a shop for a week. 4) I like doing my own work. But I'm really tempted to try the plumbing tool. These are also available at most tool rental places for $30 a day.

Mark
 

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I just came across this photo on an Ebay auction. It looks like the tenon became stuck in the receiver and when the neck was twisted off, it broke the soft solder joint on the neck (the tenon is still in the receiver). I have no idea whether the bidders are figuring this repair into their bids. The repair doesn't look too complicated, as the tenon might not need resizing, but getting it loose would probably require a trip to a tech for most purchasers. I would guess that the neck was left in the sax, which was left in a corrosive environment for years. A hint that more repair is necessary.

View attachment 144114

Mark
 
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