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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some years ago I bought Holton Collegiate tenor without neck and some keys. According to serial its about 1940-1941. I believe it will be very good horn after repairing.
But I never see necks for this sax. What neck is suitable to search/buy without lowing down sound quality?
 

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it won't be easy to find a neck for a Holton Collegiate since it was a student saxophone even in its heyday.

You could adapt a Eastern Music Power neck (is it an alto or a tenor?) and not break the bank but if you are also missing keys the cost may easily go rather higher than the value.

this is a BUY NOW auction with a whole horn for $99 ( neck and keys are all there)

Shipping may be expensive

If I were you I'd ask an American friend to get it and just send the parts that you need and make a lamp of the rest)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ho...787589?hash=item3da1563945:g:KawAAOSwWPteldXm
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It is tenor. I bought it for 25$ + 80$ shipping after reading that it was one of the best holtons of that time. I planned to repair myself.
Yes it seems reasonable to use "power neck"
 

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Really, the missing keys are more the issue. Without buying another complete horn, it鈥檚 highly unlikely that what you need is available in parts. It would cost you around $100 for the EM neck, which would leave you with a $205 decoration.
 

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If you want to restore this instrument to playing condition, you're going to have to try various necks and pick the one that's least bad. Then you're going to need at least one dead tenor to cannibalize keys from, and all the keys will have to be altered in order to work.

After spending hundreds of hours and unknown amount of money to get this thing playable, you'll have a saxophone of mediocre quality that's worth very little.

If I found one of these, complete, and easily restorable to playing condition (just needs pads, for example) I MIGHT consider it, knowing from the beginning I could never get my money back out of it; missing bits? No way.
 

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Some years ago I bought Holton Collegiate tenor without neck and some keys. According to serial its about 1940-1941. I believe it will be very good horn after repairing.
But I never see necks for this sax. What neck is suitable to search/buy without lowing down sound quality?
Actually...it wll not be hard to find a suitable neck (I refurbish horns and ama HUGE Holton fan).

1) I just pulled out a Holton neck I have here (sorry cannot sell it it is incomplete and somewhat damaged) and tested its 'natural pitch' against some other necks. It is in the same neighborhood as a Buescher Aristocrat neck I have here, as well as a Bundy 1 neck. This is good news because these necks are also in the same range as a Conn 16M neck.

By natural pitch I mean what is referred to here:


So...SO FAR...a Bundy or Aristocrat or Conn 16M or Pan American neck, pitch-wise, will work pretty well with a Collegiate tenor.

2) The NEXT issue here becomes Tenon size.
You need to measure the neck receiver diameter using a set of slide calipers or electronic calipers. Measure in 2 or 3 places. Again this is the interior diameter of the neck receiver.

The replacement neck NEEDS to have a tenon diameter which is no more than .2mm difference than your neck receiver.

In other words, if the neck receiver measures 28.0mm, then your replacement neck needs to have an exterior tenon diameter of between 27.8-28.2mm.
It cannot be 27.7, 27.6, or 28.3, etc....

Because .2mm off is about the maximum range where a repair tech can either stretch the smaller tenon to fit or compress the larger tenon to fit (not expensive for a tech to do this).

The Bundy neck I have here has a Tenon diameter of 27.93. So if your Holton neck receiver is between 27.75-28.15, the Bundy neck will work (again the tenon will need some fitting done by a tech)

3) Another option, already noted by others ~ Once you get your receiver diameter measured (in mm).....see if one of these will work, tenon-wise:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...5.m570.l1313&_nkw=eastern+power+neck&_sacat=0

Eastern Music's 'standard' available tenons are either 27.5 or 28.2mm.
So, if your receiver diameter is, say, between 27.4, 27.5, 27,6, 27.7 - 28, 28.1, 28.3....one of these will work....but if the receiver diameter is 27.8-27.9 one of their standard tenon sizes will NOT work.

BUT...you CAN ask them if they will sell you a neck with YOUR specific Tenon size. They WILL do this for you if you contact the seller thru eBay.

In other words, your receiver diameter is ohhhhh....27.9...and you do NOT want to have to go to a tech and have the tech tweak your new neck tenon. ASK Eastern Music if they will sell you a power neck outfitted with a Tenon diameter of 27.9. This way...you get the neck, you instert it into the receiver, and it fits great...no tech tweak required. They WILL do this for you (they may charge a little extra to, however).

So there are two options.

A third option is....buy a Bundy or Conn 16M or Pan American neck, don't worry about the tenon size, then buy just a TENON from Eastern music made to the exact size/diameter of your Holton receiver...and have a tech remove the replacement neck tenon from the Bundy/Conn neck and install the Eastern Music tenon (very simple operation, not expensive).

Whew....
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I currently play on Lamonte superior tenor ( stenscil ORSI possibly) and have some saxes in different conditions on shelf. c-mel, alt, weltklang tenor. All these I bought for cheap when starting on this way and repaired myself. All I want with holton is to hear how it plays. I tried used selmer artist ltd tenor some days ago and noticed no huge difference with lamonte
 

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After spending hundreds of hours and unknown amount of money to get this thing playable, you'll have a saxophone of mediocre quality that's worth very little.
Maybe maybe not.

The neck issue can be resolved for around $100.

The next question becomes....WHICH keys ? How many keys ?

For example..palm keys ? Not hard to transplant Tenor palm keys from one horn to another (probably will have to also transplant a key saddle or two).

Spat keys ? Also no big deal, providing a tech has a donor horn. Again besides the keys, the posts might also need to be transplanted.

Stack keys ? If it's the upper B or lower D,E,F....do-able.

If it's the F#, G# lower or G, A, Bis, C upper.....likely gonna be a beeeeyatch.

Pinky table keys ? Much bigger deal than that.

Octave mechanism ? Huge deal.

What do Holton Collegiate project horns sell for here in the US ? Around $200, with neck and full compliment of keys.

Then there'd be shipping to Russia, another $150....
 

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Actually...it wll not be hard to find a suitable neck..<snip long discussion of neck>...
he also says it's missing some keys.

To me, unless you just want to experience what it would be like to play a Holton Collegiate with a substitute neck and some cannibalized keys off another horn, it's not worth the considerable effort. Also, OP shows himself in Russia so importing saxophone bits for obscure horns might not be so easy.

There's nothing wrong with resurrecting it and making a sort of Frankenhorn out of it, but you should understand that making it playable is going to involve considerable effort and expense to end up with at best a good student quality horn that would bring no more than $250 on the US market.
 

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I currently play on Lamonte superior tenor ( stenscil ORSI possibly) and have some saxes in different conditions on shelf. c-mel, alt, weltklang tenor. All these I bought for cheap when starting on this way and repaired myself. All I want with holton is to hear how it plays. I tried used selmer artist ltd tenor some days ago and noticed no huge difference with lamonte
If what you mean is you lterally want to hear how it plays, its 'sound' - just use any neck on it and use plumbers teflon tape on the tenon if tenon is too small. It will at least allow you to playtest it.

If what you mean is "does a Collegiate sound GOOD ?"...yes, they sound quite good. Very big ol' American Tenor Tone.
 

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he also says it's missing some keys.

To me, unless you just want to experience what it would be like to play a Holton Collegiate with a substitute neck and some cannibalized keys off another horn, it's not worth the considerable effort. Also, OP shows himself in Russia so importing saxophone bits for obscure horns might not be so easy.
See my subsequent reply :bluewink:

If it's an 'easy' key or two, it's not that difficult nor expensive a modification.

So with a Power neck or modified Bundy neck...and a couple of donor keys acquired from a local tech glommed on there...it'd be just as good as any other Collegiate...which is not bad at all. Quite nice, actually.

Now IF the work gotta go to an outside tech, and one is paying an outside tech for key replacement/mod and tenon mod......might it be more cost-effective simply to find a project Collegiate, complete ? Yes, it might be....
 

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I currently play on Lamonte superior tenor ( stenscil ORSI possibly) and have some saxes in different conditions on shelf. c-mel, alt, weltklang tenor.
Does the LaMonte or Weltklang neck fit the Collegiate by any chance ? I might think the Lamonte is not far off from fitting (but intonationally that neck would possibly be a nightmare on a Holton) ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Does the LaMonte or Weltklang neck fit the Collegiate by any chance ? I might think the Lamonte is not far off from fitting (but intonationally that neck would possibly be a nightmare on a Holton) ?
Not fit without resoldering tenon. I gifted a chinese neck (seems too big comparing to pics) and replaced tenon from a holton cap, so it ideally fits.
Two keys are roughly made from brass rod. All other keys works. No neck key.
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Not fit without resoldering tenon. I gifted a chinese neck (seems too big comparing to pics) and replaced tenon from a holton cap, so it ideally fits.
Two keys are roughly made from brass rod. All other keys works. No neck key.
View attachment 266496
View attachment 266500
View attachment 266502
Looks like the palm keys still have their orignal halves from the key barrel to the keycup. That isn't a very hard thing to fix, if you are capable of silver soldering (high heat, focused torch, silver solder ...not lead based).

If you are not, quite honestly, most repair techs know how to silver solder.

Here in US, finding 2 'donor' palmkeys where you can cut off and take their keytouch halves and silver solder them to the 2 palmkey halves you have....would cost maybe around $50-60, paying a tech.

So you took a modern Chinese neck and soldered on a Holton endplug, so it works ?

Did you check the intonation on the Holton with that neck (assuming the Holton plays a little).

If that neck tube intones decently up and down the registers....then all you need is a key. That was a clever thing to try....but see if it intones, because the endplug (as opposed to having used a real tenon) will have lengthened the total neck tube a bit and this may (or may not) make the neck intone oddly.

Neck keys .....can be taken off other necks, or.....contact Eastern Music (thru the Power neck auctions on eBay I provided above), and ask them if you could buy some neck keys, including saddles, pivot rods, and flat springs with screw.

They will sell you those for around $25 each, I believe.

I had them make 3 keys for me, two nickel, one raw brass....they came out great and I have already used one on a Couf neck and it works great and looks good.

So....$25 + ship for neck key, + the palmkey work by a tech= $50-60, and you already may have a chinese neck which works....That's under $100 investment and then all you gotta do is padwork and regulation to make it play.

OR...you could even choose to abandon your modified Chinese neck, and get a Power Neck with the right size tenon... and that would only be around $80-110....thus you could negate buying the octave key for $25....so then your investment in parts and mods would still be around $140-170....

So you have two options between $85-170 and you'd have what you need.

$105 was the cost of the horn so, worst case, you are at $190-$275 worth of a total investment with neck and palmkey issues fixed, but before padwork, etc.

That's not bad at all.....that is more or less right in the ballpark of what a complete project one would have cost, shipped to you.
 

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OP, it looks like you already made replacement keys, just don't have the keytouches yet? Good work.

Finding an octave key and modifying it for the neck you have, should be something you can manage if you're making keys.

I apologize for underestimating your skills here. As an enjoyable project, your Holton looks quite interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
OP, it looks like you already made replacement keys, just don't have the keytouches yet? Good work.

Finding an octave key and modifying it for the neck you have, should be something you can manage if you're making keys.

I apologize for underestimating your skills here. As an enjoyable project, your Holton looks quite interesting.
My far crazy goal is reverse engineering for 3d printing (at least keywork for lightweight). I did not find bore profiles with hole placements and will measure those saxes I have here.
About repairing - I moved to another city and temporarily lost some useful environments.
Silver solder need too high temp. I used 50% silver/zinc or something solder ( about 600C) because my radio soldering posts all break out after a time.
 

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That solder you mention may not hold together a palm key the way it needs to be done. 600c not very hot. My soft solder flows at 470c.

Even the softer silver solders have a flow temp of like 800c.

There's a lot of stress on those keys and at the solder joint where one would be transplanting a new touch onto an existing key barrel and cup, silver solder is really the safest bet.

The keys are so small you could possibly mail them to a tech who silver solders, ask them to come up with some key touches ?
 
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