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Hello, I got my hands on a Conn New wonder I Bari, and need a matching neck. I've seen necks for the 12m floating around, but none for the earlier new wonder. It has/should have an octave pip on the side of the neck. Anyone selling one or know where I could maybe find one?
 

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Hello, I got my hands on a Conn New wonder I Bari, and need a matching neck. I've seen necks for the 12m floating around, but none for the earlier new wonder. It has/should have an octave pip on the side of the neck. Anyone selling one or know where I could maybe find one?
Check the inside of the horn really well and hope the neck is stuck up inside it somewhere. That's really your best hope, as having one fabricated is probably your next best option; and that might not be cost effective given the lack of value for these horns.
 

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You could also buy a chinese neck, the one's which look like 12M necks, then have a good tech relocate the octave pip. Also not a cheap endeavor (although the necks themselves come cheap, add $100 at least for the mod...and you would just wanna try to match up the tenon diameter to the horn).
 

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Look at Music medic. They are currently producing the first batch of replacement 12 M necks. See their posting on Instagram for pictures
 

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Look at Music medic. They are currently producing the first batch of replacement 12 M necks. See their posting on Instagram for pictures
It won't work. Early New Wonder baritone saxophones have a unique neck design where the octave pip is on the side of the neck with the pad mechanism attached to the upper loop of the body of the horn. A terrible design that was soon abandoned. Plus, the neck you recommend costs $750, and you could buy another New Wonder bari for that amount that comes with its original neck.

I hope the OP didn't buy the horn thinking a neck could be easily had. This is one of the types of horns to avoid buying if there is no neck. I should also let folks know that I've had one of these Conn baritones for nearly forty years, so I'm not against refurbishing them and keeping them going. Just without a neck it's going to be a long, expensive, and probably wasteful endeavor to try to make work.
 

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I don't see why, if you could get a neck that fits 12M, you couldn't move the vent. You could also, I think, do some key mods to open the 12M neck's vent with the machinery that's present on the old bari. I would not pay much to have the work done, but I could do it myself. If the horn only goes up to Eb as with many of these, the amount of time and money to put into it goes down even further.
 

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I don't see why, if you could get a neck that fits 12M, you couldn't move the vent.
You certainly could. But if it costs $750 plus the additional work, you're money would be better spent on another New Wonder bari that has a neck; which can be had for less. Then of course there's no guarantee a 12M neck isn't going to have intonation issues on a New Wonder... which already has them to begin with.

But going with a cheap one from China on ebay, as Jaye suggested, would be a more worthwhile gamble. Thing is though, you'd also have to add a catch to the neck to align to the prong to keep it in place as per the antiquated New Wonder design.
 

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You certainly could. But if it costs $750 plus the additional work, you're money would be better spent on another New Wonder bari that has a neck; which can be had for less. Then of course there's no guarantee a 12M neck isn't going to have intonation issues on a New Wonder... which already has them to begin with.

But going with a cheap one from China on ebay, as Jaye suggested, would be a more worthwhile gamble. Thing is though, you'd also have to add a catch to the neck to align to the prong to keep it in place as per the antiquated New Wonder design.
You know, that kind of leads into a thought that's been floating around in my head for some time. I wonder if the correct position for the upper vent might not be right about where the tenon joint is? Selmer and Selmer copy baritones have very short necks, and the vent below the joint (no key on the neck); King and Buescher have a very very short key on the neck; and the Conn NW has the key on the body and the vent on the neck, a very poor mechanical design; but it might be that the Conn design is actually the best vent position. If I had enough money and time one investigation I would like to make would be using a NW neck on a 12M, and vice versa.

That said, the 12M does not have response issues with the notes that use the upper vent, so it may also be that the upper vent position is less critical than we think.

As a sidebar, one time I tabulated the lower vent positions on all my saxophones:

- Holton C soprano
- Buescher Bb sop
- Holton/Couturier Bb sop
- Conn 6M alto
- Martin Handcraft alto
- Conn 10M
- Conn 12M
- Beaugnier bass

and the lower vent position varies quite a bit among these. I don't have the list, but I described it as "across from the X tone hole" or "just below the Y tone hole" and I remember the different vents being located over a range of two or more tone hole positions, in other words a very significant variation. Just food for thought.

So maybe the solution for Conn NW bari owners would be for someone to offer a conversion kit to put a decent mechanism on the neck to allow angular adjustment. Of course we get back to the cost-benefit issue.
 

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Another nice vintage boat anchor or maybe a pretty fountain in your back yard.
You could just jam the mouthpiece onto the neck receiver and play it. It will probably be just as well in tune as if you had the neck.
 

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Actually, we don't even know for sure if a 12M replica neck fits a NW I.

I know that Artist neck tenons and Chu tenons are the same (or within acceptable ranges of being usable on each other), and I believe a NWI neck will fit a 10M/PanAm/16M), but not positive a 12M neck fits a NWI, regardless of pip location.

And again, as noted already, buying a replica 12M neck, quite pricey as they range from $350 -750, doesn't get you much as it still requires substantial tech mods.

Re: Turf's pondering....personally, yeah...as a tech-nerd, I wouldn't mind pondering the notion of:

RATHER than modifying an overslung-key neck to fit an existing side-pip mechanism NWI (which would be an aesthetic compromise in the end because you would have to patch the original top pip hole, and move the pip to the side; and a functional compromise because all you have done in the end is resuscitate an anachronistic-albeit-usable octave key mechanism)....

...one might actually wanna modify the side-pip mech on the HORN itself to match the overslung, 12-M style neck. This would actually 'un-encumber' the NWI with that side-pip issue.

But this would be a completely tech-nerdy endeavor, likely requiring removal/relocation and/or installation of some posts, and building a new piece or two to the mechanism; because as an investment, it'll always come out a lo$er (if that's important to the owner).

(My guess is, if I came up with such a solution, and offered it as a service...I might make around , ohhh...3 players in the world..... exceedingly happy...over the period of the next 10 years or so). :|

Therefore former solution (buy cheap neck w/i tenon diameter range, have tech modify neck as required) would likely run maybe $100 for the neck and, I dunno...$100-150 for the tech work (removing neck key and saddle, removing original pip, patching pip hole, drilling new hole at side pip location, soldering back in original pip at new location, and maybe adding a nib to stop neck from rotating beyond where key pad meets side pip).

If you got the NWI body for cheap, then adding a $250 investment into getting a neck to work ain't horrible. But a $500+ investment to 'neck' it ? Now, yeah, you are in the weeds...
 

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I see nothing wrong with spending some money on parts/ repair providing you intend on using it. I’d be pretty sure to say that anyone manufacturing necks didn’t do so without researching the market interest. I’d be willing to say music medic gets enough calls to warrant the investment of research and Tooling. Jaylid someone like yourself as a dealer can’t make any money like this but it doesn’t mean it’s wrong (not worth it)for a private party to spend a few bucks and enjoy the instrument.

Update @12:22 pm. For fun I contacted Music Medic and they can make an exact replacement neck.
 

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Update @12:22 pm. For fun I contacted Music Medic and they can make an exact replacement neck.
How much? There's a reason that these horns, even with their original neck, only sell for about $500. They have limited keywork (low Bb to high Eb only) and play sharp with any mouthpiece that's not an extended shank and/or pickle-barrel mouthpiece. The octave design is incredibly poor and great care must be taken with the horn to keep the mechanism in line. Sure, I have had great fun with mine over the years with my various combos, but the horn was given to me when I was in high school and I never put more than a couple hundred bucks into it over the years. They are unsuitable for most ensemble purposes given their limited keyed range and the intonation issues will frustrate most players; especially those who favor modern styled mouthpieces.

So the problem here is that some of the options discussed cost more than the value of a complete New Wonder Bari, which wouldn't necessarily be a hindrance if you knew you were going to love the horn when finished. But with this antiquated model... though it may have the bark and bite of a Conn bari... the negatives so far outweigh the positives that a good result would be nothing short of a miracle. Something to keep in mind before advising new members to shell out good money for bad.
 

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How much? There's a reason that these horns, even with their original neck, only sell for about $500. They have limited keywork (low Bb to high Eb only) and play sharp with any mouthpiece that's not an extended shank and/or pickle-barrel mouthpiece. The octave design is incredibly poor and great care must be taken with the horn to keep the mechanism in line. Sure, I have had great fun with mine over the years with my various combos, but the horn was given to me when I was in high school and I never put more than a couple hundred bucks into it over the years. They are unsuitable for most ensemble purposes given their limited keyed range and the intonation issues will frustrate most players; especially those who favor modern styled mouthpieces.

So the problem here is that some of the options discussed cost more than the value of a complete New Wonder Bari, which wouldn't necessarily be a hindrance if you knew you were going to love the horn when finished. But with this antiquated model... though it may have the bark and bite of a Conn bari... the negatives so far outweigh the positives that a good result would be nothing short of a miracle. Something to keep in mind before advising new members to shell out good money for bad.
Hi there Grumps. Where is our OP....no feedback to work from just like many new members. Experience unknown however it’s not real common for beginners to choose a bari. I didn’t say it was “worth it” as a resale value. Only that I didn’t have a issue if it is to be enjoyed. Yea, a great many vintage horns have problems. If OP (Gordon) purchased this unknowingly well education can get expensive. Otherwise maybe he planned on playing at home for “enjoyment “.
The part would be a one off made to order and around $800. If someone budgeted a 100 year Old Bari buy @$500 service @$600 [email protected]$800 you have $1900 cool bari to enjoy. I just passed on a 2010 KW bari @$700..no character. It’s not always about $$$
Blast on stage who knows.
Your above comment is astute, thank you.
 

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I’d be pretty sure to say that anyone manufacturing necks didn’t do so without researching the market interest.
This argument therefore supports my point, and Grumps' as well.

Anyone who researched market interest before producing replica necks would never produce a NW I baritone neck...which is why there aren't any. Whereas, the 12M neck (a neck which as already explained above is NOT a good solution) is relatively readily available.

I see nothing wrong with spending some money on parts/ repair providing you intend on using it.
I agree with you on this, personally. If one loves their horn, then be damned whether the market deems it popular/valuable or not.

Update @12:22 pm. For fun I contacted Music Medic and they can make an exact replacement neck.
How much?
The part would be a one off made to order and around $800.
OK...as Grumps and I have mentioned, your suggestions (first of a 12M replacement neck, then of a custom-made $800 NW replica)....are, while possible, not particularly great solutions when one considers the market value and performance attributes of the horn vs. the cost of the replacement neck. As already noted one can find a NWI with original neck for less than the cost of any custom made replacement neck alone.

So while we can make a theoretical argument (and at this point it is all we are doing since, as you say - we appear to be faced with another thread started by a new member who has never then returned to the discussion) that there might be a reason to spend $750-800+ on equipping an old model of $+/- $600 market value with a new neck...and while it would be, in a purist sense, laudable to shell out a good amount of $ for a perfect replica neck for an old model ~ I would guess that the likelihood of what is going on here is more towards what Grumps alluded to earlier - someone wanted to end up with a BigHorn for kinda cheap, therefore figured finding a neck for a neckless body they purchased wouldn't be very complicated.

And, as you point out...it isn't....if you wanna shell out $800ish.

I don't think most folks really wanna shell out $700-800 for a replica neck when their horn (with original neck) is worth significantly less than that, is all. Seems a reasonable assumption to me (again, given there is no word from OP).

Honestly, I hope the OP Mr. Gordon knew what he was getting into by buying an neckless old Conn, and I hope none of this news is a shock or surprise to him.

 

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Hi all, thanks for the feedback. For context, I bought the horn and in the pictures a neck was there... Said neck was lost by seller, and he refused to take the horn back or refund me(lots of lessons learned there). Anyway, he DID send me a Yamaha neck which fits with a little help of plumbers tape. At this point the horn actually sounds pretty great, and voicing up on Bari in the upper octave isn't exceptionally difficult. The problem I'm having is that no matter what I do the entire horn plays very sharp. Will keep looking for a neck that actually matches the horn, if anyone has one/can make one for significantly cheaper than the $800 I've seen quoted, PLEASE let me know
 

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Hi all, thanks for the feedback. For context, I bought the horn and in the pictures a neck was there... Said neck was lost by seller, and he refused to take the horn back or refund me(lots of lessons learned there). Anyway, he DID send me a Yamaha neck which fits with a little help of plumbers tape. At this point the horn actually sounds pretty great, and voicing up on Bari in the upper octave isn't exceptionally difficult. The problem I'm having is that no matter what I do the entire horn plays very sharp. Will keep looking for a neck that actually matches the horn, if anyone has one/can make one for significantly cheaper than the $800 I've seen quoted, PLEASE let me know
Welcome back. Glad your decision to purchase was based on experience and not just another newbie trying to flip a horn. Bummer you got stiffed on the deal. At least you can play at this time.

I’m curious what the purchase environment was (CL,fleabay or?) And what that criminal relieved your pocket of. Obviously you didn’t buy it here as you are a new member and not entitled to the marketplace.

Jay, Grumps and others have recently hashed the 12m subject over on this thread.
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?243500-Music-Medic-Conn-12-5m-neck-review.

To everyone in regards to the expense I don’t think it’s out of line at $800. If you think about it as 10 hours of a machine shop time. We all spend more than that to get our cars is fixed. And there’s millions of cars. This is specialty service. I’m still waiting for an $800 Ferrari to replace my 30-year-old Volvo.
 

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Hi all, thanks for the feedback. For context, I bought the horn and in the pictures a neck was there... Said neck was lost by seller, and he refused to take the horn back or refund me(lots of lessons learned there). Anyway, he DID send me a Yamaha neck which fits with a little help of plumbers tape. At this point the horn actually sounds pretty great, and voicing up on Bari in the upper octave isn't exceptionally difficult. The problem I'm having is that no matter what I do the entire horn plays very sharp. Will keep looking for a neck that actually matches the horn, if anyone has one/can make one for significantly cheaper than the $800 I've seen quoted, PLEASE let me know
Well, that s#cks, and I too am sorry the seller is a jerk. Did you pay via Paypal or fund it with a credit card ? If so, you can file a dispute on the charge....and I would highly recommend you do.

So your under-$500 option is gonna be :

1) measuring the neck receiver with a set of digital calipers (perhaps a tech can do this if you don't have any). This will determine the tenon diameter for the replacement neck.

That diameter can vary by .2mm, no more. IOW, if the receiver is 23.3mm in diameter, your neck tenon needs to be between 23.1-23.5mm. Nothing above or below will work.

2) Find an aftermarket neck online someplace with a Tenon diameter which falls within those allowances. Or maybe scour eFlay for a vintage cheapie (this would be one where the seller cannot identify the model horn it came from, thus buyers are more wary about buying/bidding.
As you have discovered, modern necks like Yamahas, Yanis, JK's, etc are very short for an old horn, so they won't work.
Look for a long-ish looking neck.

Kinda like these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellence...218538?hash=item56b5db0a2a:g:~bsAAOSw2cVat44r

If you can find one that meets those parameters, then have a tech alter it by removing the octave key and relocating the pip. But first, play it on the horn and make sure it intones decently.

It'd be around a $100-120 tech job, I'd say. So it's that + cost of chinese or old generic/unidentifiable neck.
 
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