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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking for a tenor and mouthpiece

I'd be going for a Getz-Garzone esque tone. I know tone comes from the mind and the individual not the equipment but some sort of equipment is necessary!

My homework thus far says:

Hard rubber mouthpiece. (Refaced HR Link, RPC, Barone.....)

All my favourites play a vintage vi but I couldn't afford one any time soon and I know they're really inconsistent.

The Phil Barone Classic has seen nothing but good reviews.

I don't know if the vintage american horns would be right for what I'm going for.

Any suggestions, opinions, comments as far as horns and mouthpieces go?

Cheers
Dan
 

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I'm looking for a tenor and mouthpiece

I'd be going for a Getz-Garzone esque tone. I know tone comes from the mind and the individual not the equipment but some sort of equipment is necessary!

My homework thus far says:

Hard rubber mouthpiece. (Refaced HR Link, RPC, Barone.....)

All my favourites play a vintage vi but I couldn't afford one any time soon and I know they're really inconsistent.

The Phil Barone Classic has seen nothing but good reviews.

I don't know if the vintage american horns would be right for what I'm going for.

Any suggestions, opinions, comments as far as horns and mouthpieces go?

Cheers
Dan
When it comes to mouthpieces...it has everything to do with the design, as opposed to the material used. But as far as recommendations go...that's a tough one, and it's hard to throw in my own two cents without knowing what sax you plan on pairing it with (plus it's just such a personal choice...my idea of a good piece could be a really crummy fit for you).

Now, for saxes...

VI's certainly can be expensive...and I would agree that they can be inconsistent (though really...it applies to all saxes, but I digress). If you were to consider buying one later down the road...I would really suggest driving (or flying if need be) to one or more stores that have a decent supply of VI tenors (10-15 would be ideal), and try them out back-to-back. Out of dozens of VI tenors...I've only found a handful that really were a good fit for me. But that's just if/when you feel the strong desire to buy one, and have a kidney or first born to give up :bluewink:.

For modern horns (especially those in the more reasonable price ranges), a Barone would be a good consideration. I haven't played on one yet, but I too have only heard good things about them...plus, you might be able to get a HR Barone mouthpiece with it as well (not sure if Phil is still offering this or not though...).

As far as vintage horns are go...are you more concerned that they won't fit your sound concept, or that your hands aren't vintage compatible? Because there are enough to choose from that you really can go in different directions sound-wise based on the brand and model you go with. And most vintage pro horns come in quite a bit below the cost of a big brand modern pro-line horn, even if you have to spend a little to get them tweaked to your liking.

The thing going against vintage saxes is that you can't go to any music store to try out a good selection of them, and you have to take condition into consideration. But they might be a good way to go...the only way to really find out for sure is to try out any you can find locally and go from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
When it comes to mouthpieces...it has everything to do with the design, as opposed to the material used. But as far as recommendations go...that's a tough one, and it's hard to throw in my own two cents without knowing what sax you plan on pairing it with (plus it's just such a personal choice...my idea of a good piece could be a really crummy fit for you).

Now, for saxes...

VI's certainly can be expensive...and I would agree that they can be inconsistent (though really...it applies to all saxes, but I digress). If you were to consider buying one later down the road...I would really suggest driving (or flying if need be) to one or more stores that have a decent supply of VI tenors (10-15 would be ideal), and try them out back-to-back. Out of dozens of VI tenors...I've only found a handful that really were a good fit for me. But that's just if/when you feel the strong desire to buy one, and have a kidney or first born to give up :bluewink:.

For modern horns (especially those in the more reasonable price ranges), a Barone would be a good consideration. I haven't played on one yet, but I too have only heard good things about them...plus, you might be able to get a HR Barone mouthpiece with it as well (not sure if Phil is still offering this or not though...).

As far as vintage horns are go...are you more concerned that they won't fit your sound concept, or that your hands aren't vintage compatible? Because there are enough to choose from that you really can go in different directions sound-wise based on the brand and model you go with. And most vintage pro horns come in quite a bit below the cost of a big brand modern pro-line horn, even if you have to spend a little to get them tweaked to your liking.

The thing going against vintage saxes is that you can't go to any music store to try out a good selection of them, and you have to take condition into consideration. But they might be a good way to go...the only way to really find out for sure is to try out any you can find locally and go from there.
Yeah the mouthpiece thing I'm going to have to figure out myself, but any suggestions that would get me near that getz tone would be awesome! I've seen thorugh various sources that he uses a very closed faced HR Link or similar mouthpiece with hard reeds. Know the reasoning behind the closed facing? Just preference or for the sound?

I'm living in canada, and there aren't many sax shops round here, especially where I live... Flying for the Mark vi would be the only way. I'm afraid that will probably have to wait though. Mark vi is out... for now.

I'm very interested in the Barone, the only thing I fear is how it will hold over time...

As far as other vintage horns, its the tone. I play a TH&C so hands are definitely vintage suited.
I've heard though that the Conns and Kings are known for their big huge edgy sound. Not what I'm looking for. Maybe another Buescher, but I'd prefer to spread my horizons a little farther. Am I wrong about the Conns,

Cheers
 

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I'm looking for a tenor and mouthpiece

I'd be going for a Getz-Garzone esque tone. I know tone comes from the mind and the individual not the equipment but some sort of equipment is necessary!

My homework thus far says:

Hard rubber mouthpiece. (Refaced HR Link, RPC, Barone.....)

All my favourites play a vintage vi but I couldn't afford one any time soon and I know they're really inconsistent.

The Phil Barone Classic has seen nothing but good reviews.

I don't know if the vintage american horns would be right for what I'm going for.

Any suggestions, opinions, comments as far as horns and mouthpieces go?

Cheers
Dan
They both play(ed) Selmers. I know for most of his career Stan Getz played a MkVI. George plays an SBA & MKVI.

You should seriously consider the Barone Vintage. I much prefer it over the Classic. It's got more stuff going on - more tonal complexity, IMHO.

Also, The new Viking Legend Series M58 is supposed to be very SBA like.
 

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You can hardly get closer to it that with the topmost mpc on Steve's site: http://www.neffmusic.com/blog/tag/drake-mouthpieces/
... without some chirurgic adjustments on your end - and a lot of practice to mirror the sound.
I think to remember Mr. Drake stating that they're not using his skull to put the teeth marks on the replicas, but a touch of white paint.

Phil Barone's mpc are really held in high esteem around these parts - and they're traded quite often in the marketplace.
 

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I have a the legends series getz piece and it's a wonderful mouthpiece as long as you don't expect to instantly sound like getz
 

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Discussion Starter #8
They both play(ed) Selmers. I know for most of his career Stan Getz played a MkVI. George plays an SBA & MKVI.

You should seriously consider the Barone Vintage. I much prefer it over the Classic. It's got more stuff going on - more tonal complexity, IMHO.
What makes it so?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Garzone is playing with Jody Jazz Hard Rubber piece 10* with Jazz selcts 4 hard
As compared to Getz who plays a 5* or so...

Does anyone else hear the huge similarities in sound or am I alone there?
 

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As compared to Getz who plays a 5* or so...

Does anyone else hear the huge similarities in sound or am I alone there?
George and I have been tight since 1970.......George loves Stan Getz. NOW- you might also take a look at Frank Tiberi. Ok? There is the direct connect to Garzone in what I bet you are hearing!!!


Tiberi morfed Trane harmony with that trippy Getz kinda float. On top of that- you can never think of it but........TIBERI SHREDS BUT IT'S SO DEEP YOUONLY HEAR THE ART. Not the chop.

In my mind- TIBERI is as important as Getz and Zone....maybe more so IF your hip to what he can do /AND HOW HE DOES IT!!!

Think about it.
 

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Find out what tip opening and strength of reed you're comfortable with before buying a mouthpiece.
Working yourself to death on a 10* with a 2byfour as a rees might not be all that productive. most players end up in the 7* range, some prefer smaller or bigger.
Mark VI's are great horns but expensive and you don't really need one to get a good tone.
the downside of buying a cheaper taiwanese imitiation mark VI ( they can be very good horns though) is that they have not so much value second hand, so if you buy a new one be prepared to lose money should you decide to sell it later on to get a selmer or other vintage horn.
I don't know your budget but the cheapest way would be buying a well set up second hand barone or mauriat I suppose.
If you decide on a selmer you could also consider a mark VII or sa80 second hand. they still have that selmer sound and ergo's (the VII is slightly different) and cost considerably less $$$ then a mark VI. buying in a shop will assure you of a decent state of the pads and set up. ebay is a bit of a risk in that respect, you'll never know what you're going to get really.
Yanagisawa 's are really nice too, well built but seldom seen second hand.
basically any good horn and low baffled mouthpiece should get you on your way, as long as you're somewhat in the same ballpark as what you're looking for.
I think Matt Otto ( a member here too ) for example plays a Yamaha with a selmer soloist and he gets a beautiful warm sound. ( which proves the fact that a good player with a strong concept of tone can get the tone he wants, also on a horn which has the rep of having a poppy, loud and thin sound.)
 

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George and I have been tight since 1970.......George loves Stan Getz. NOW- you might also take a look at Frank Tiberi. Ok? There is the direct connect to Garzone in what I bet you are hearing!!!


Tiberi morfed Trane harmony with that trippy Getz kinda float. On top of that- you can never think of it but........TIBERI SHREDS BUT IT'S SO DEEP YOUONLY HEAR THE ART. Not the chop.

In my mind- TIBERI is as important as Getz and Zone....maybe more so IF your hip to what he can do /AND HOW HE DOES IT!!!

Think about it.
Yes!!! Frank Tiberi is so great! And, George and Frank are close friends:


Both of them are playing SBAs.
 

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What makes it so?
It has to do with the larger bore, tone hole placement, & the larger bell.

I have played-tested both and greatly preferred the Vintage, which does have a nice core, but is a more spread than the Classic. Although, it's not as spread as a Conn 10M.

Phil once told me, "There's more s**t in the sound with my horns than the modern Selmers, Yamahas, & Yanigasawas."

That being said, Mr. Tim Price sounds fantastic on his Selmer Serie III!!! :)

Goes to show, so much has to do with the player.
 

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It has to do with the larger bore, tone hole placement, & the larger bell.

I have played-tested both and greatly preferred the Vintage, which does have a nice core, but is a little more spread than the Classic. Although, it's not as spread as a Conn 10M.

Phil once told me, "There's more s**t in the sound with my horns than the modern Selmers, Yamahas, & Yanigasawas."

That being said, Mr. Tim Price sounds fantastic on his Selmer Serie III!!! :)

Goes to show, so much has to do with the player.
Isnt the large bore stuff just another myth?
 

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Isnt the large bore stuff just another myth?
Not in this case. If you compare the Classic and Vintage next to each other, the bore is different.

The neck tenon/receiver is bigger on the Vintage as is the bow and bell.

Conns & Keilwerths have a larger bore and that is no myth, unless a whole lot of people have been lying over the past 70 years.
 

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Not in this case. If you compare the Classic and Vintage next to each other, the bore is different.

The neck tenon/receiver is bigger on the Vintage as is the bow and bell.

Conns & Keilwerths have a larger bore and that is no myth, unless a whole lot of people have been lying over the past 70 years.
Didn't someone measure it a while ago? I thought there was a thread about this
 

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Didn't someone measure it a while ago? I thought there was a thread about this
I am not aware of it, but there might be.

There is a reason that the Barone Classic & Vintage sound different. If you have any better ideas as to why, I would like to hear it.
 

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I am not aware of it, but there might be.

There is a reason that the Barone Classic & Vintage sound different. If you have any better ideas as to why, I would like to hear it.
If haven't got a clue. In the end, the only thing that matters is the difference not why there is a difference
 

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Discussion Starter #20
As compared to Getz who plays a 5* or so...

Does anyone else hear the huge similarities in sound or am I alone there?[/QUOTE]

George and I have been tight since 1970.......George loves Stan Getz. NOW- you might also take a look at Frank Tiberi. Ok? There is the direct connect to Garzone in what I bet you are hearing!!!


Tiberi morfed Trane harmony with that trippy Getz kinda float. On top of that- you can never think of it but........TIBERI SHREDS BUT IT'S SO DEEP YOUONLY HEAR THE ART. Not the chop.

In my mind- TIBERI is as important as Getz and Zone....maybe more so IF your hip to what he can do /AND HOW HE DOES IT!!!

Think about it.
I will thanks.
 
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