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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good day everyone,

I've been playing my selmer USA low A baritone for a couple of years now but unfortunately i've had some problems with it and because i have to be able to trust it to not fail on me on stage i am looking for another one. Now i've come across this one: System'54 Superior Class Baritonsax Pure Brass DEMO : SaxCompany.nl

Now i would like your opinion on this brand and would like to hear whether anyone has experience with this brand. I use my baritone sax in an orchestra and in a pop/funk/rock coverband. I know this is asking quite a lot of an instrument but on my Selmer USA i could make it work, quite well even i believe.

Thank you for your responses.
 

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Alto: Buescher Aristocrat 1937, Tenor: Yanagisawa T880, Bari: Martin Committee III 1948
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Never heard of them. i have a taiwanese bari which does the job well enough, but i do count the days that i cant get a classic american or a yani. you seem to need something which is flexible- hence the suggestion of the yani or yamaha. With your budget, i would be looking at a second hand one of those
 

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System 54 is a Taiwanese brand, not mysterious on not Chinese, they are importend from a German/Dutch importer and are actually very well thought of in both countries.
I am not sure what kind of model @cp0811 he has , Selmer USA baritone low A may mean a Buescher horn but it may also mean something else .
Whatever it has can be fixed

why would it fail you? What happened?
Show us a picture. Tell us what happened.

Anyway A System 54 would be a good horn, Magenta Winds too, abut your horn ( if indeed a rebranded Buescher) only needs some qualified attention and that can be acquired at the price of an overhaul and in the end would be cheaper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It is indeed a rebranded Buescher 400. It seems like the whole lower register won't work anymore (suddenly change in octave, no sound, it's all over the place). I got it fixed twice but after one or two shows it tends to go wrong again (no cure no pay thankfully). I surely believe it can be fixed long term (and maybe i want to do that more than go and spend loads on a new sax) so i will go to another tech first, but still i am lowkey checking out whats available in my region (The Netherlands) because there is no huge market for baritones.
 

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S: SA II. A+T: Martin HC1 T: Mark VI A:39 King Zephyr B: Martin HC imperial
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It is indeed a rebranded Buescher 400. It seems like the whole lower register won't work anymore (suddenly change in octave, no sound, it's all over the place).
I am wondering if the neck octave key is getting lightly pressed depending on position of the neck. On my Martin, if I rotate the neck to far to the left then the octave mechanism will press light on the neck octave key and produce the same issue that you are encountering.
 

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OK, so it's Taiwanese not Chinese. It's still no comparison with a Buescher 400.

OP, you've just got some kind of mechanical issue. Probably a leak that comes and goes, I'd guess due to some mechanical wear creating slop, but could also be a pad installed without sufficient shellac behind it, or a little piece of cork that's just hanging by one end and sometimes it's in between the keys where it needs to be and sometimes it flips out of the way. There are some other typical things that happen. Could also be a pivot screw that's loosening up and needs a little low strength Loctite or nail polish to hold it. You need to take it to someone competent and get it sorted.
 

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OK, so....a few things:

1) as noted, Selmer USA/late Buescher 400's do NOT have a propensity for going out of adjustment. With THAT said, they do have a sorta flexy low A mechanism which means that it s BEST to trigger the low A not SOLELY with the thumb trigger but rather either with the pinky touch or a combo of both.

2) If the horn keeps going out of reg and the lower octave doesn't play...again, this isn't an 'inclination' of ANY sax...it's something which your tech has not figured out yet....could be the octave mech, could actually be a leak in the ferrule connections of the upper bow, could be a niggling little leak somewhere in the LH palmkeys which is small enough to go unnoticed.
Also, check that when the horn is it the case the case does not rub up against any of the LH palmkeys or the keycup of the high E (up on the upper bow). Could be the horn leaves shop just fine, but repeated trips in and out of the case slowly creates a leak somewhere.

Next:

OK, so this Taiwanese horn is a $4g horn, new. So....it's not a $1500 Low A, new.

So...that SHOULD tell us something....it's not another asian cheapo. The brand isn't aiming at the low budget end of the market, trying to convince unwitting buyers that YES, $2000 CAN get you a horn JUST as GOOD as...blah, blah....
@milandro notes that they have garnered a bit of respect so far.
So....it might be an OK horn, actually.

So the next question would be, for $4g what else can you get in either a New or Used horn ?

1) $4g-ish can get you a Jupiter 1000, new....if you look around a bit....that's a pretty good anchor to use as a price comparison, Jupiters are good and reliable.

2) I was wondering if that price point could also get you a new Buffet 400, or a new Selmer Inc....but it cannot. Those are priced at $5g-ish.

Thomann shows the only NEW Bighorn worth a hill of beans and under the $5g threshold to again be the Jupiter 1000.

Yama, Yani new are significantly above that. So are Mauriats and Cannonballs, FWIW...not that I'd ever recommend either brand.

So...you can take that info and start to consider whether the new brand System 54 is a wiser purchase than the established brand Jupe 1000...for starters.

Last:

Consider that $4g can buy you a LOT in a used Low A. You can certainly get a Yani or Yama, used, in decent play shape, for that price.
Some others, too...Couf, Buffet, maybe a current Selmer Inc used model, etc...

Let's be honest here, MOST contemporary models of decent build are gonna be more responsive in the keywork than an old Selmer USA/400.

None are gonna sound like the latter, however. Not close.

So....
 

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It is indeed a rebranded Buescher 400. It seems like the whole lower register won't work anymore (suddenly change in octave, no sound, it's all over the place). I got it fixed twice but after one or two shows it tends to go wrong again (no cure no pay thankfully). I surely believe it can be fixed long term (and maybe i want to do that more than go and spend loads on a new sax) so i will go to another tech first, but still i am lowkey checking out whats available in my region (The Netherlands) because there is no huge market for baritones.
If it was my money and my horn I would certainly have it checked by someone with experience with these horns.

Anyway , you may be doing something to have this problem reoccurring and that is also very important.

I am in the Netheelands and although baritones are not as plentiful as they are in the US they are certainly wanted especially with a low A.
 

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I bet it's getting damaged in the case. Baris are definitely heavy enough to damage themselves pretty badly if they have much wiggle room in the case. Try padding out the case with foam, bubble wrap or anything that can gently, but firmly immobilize in the case so that when you rock it back and forth (gently!) in the case, you don't see or hear any movement.
 

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absolutely possible and especially if traveling in one of the old coffin-cases that these came with
 

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OK, so it's Taiwanese not Chinese. It's still no comparison with a Buescher 400.
Is this something you actually have experience with or just an opinion? Modern Taiwanese baritones can be great horns at reasonable cost. They know how to make saxophones.
 

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Is this something you actually have experience with or just an opinion? Modern Taiwanese baritones can be great horns at reasonable cost. They know how to make saxophones.
Find me a Taiwanese low A baritone that has the sound of a Buescher 400/Bundy/USA baritone. Go ahead, we'll all be waiting.

The Buescher 400 has the biggest most rounded wall-knocking-down sound without buzzy edge of any baritone ever made.

The keywork is clunky by modern standards (heck, by the standards of the 1935 Conn 12M), and by the time they got to labeling them "Selmer USA" the build quality may have been questionable, but the SOUND, baby!
 

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Find me a Taiwanese low A baritone that has the sound of a Buescher 400/Bundy/USA baritone. Go ahead, we'll all be waiting.

The Buescher 400 has the biggest most rounded wall-knocking-down sound without buzzy edge of any baritone ever made.

The keywork is clunky by modern standards (heck, by the standards of the 1935 Conn 12M), and by the time they got to labeling them "Selmer USA" the build quality may have been questionable, but the SOUND, baby!
There is a whole lot of
pop/funk/rock
played on other makes of baritones to great effect.

Of course, if the only thing that will work for someone is a Buescher 400, then that is what they should stay with but not the question asked by the OP.

To the OP, since you are in the Netherlands, Cadeson is virtually identical to P. Mauriat except in price.

 

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"There is a whole lot of
played on other makes of baritones to great effect. "

And your point would be?

My point was that a Taiwanese Yamaha/Selmer/Yani copy is not a drop-in replacement for a Buescher 400. When you find a Taiwanese Yamah/Selmer/Yani copy that sounds like a Buescher 400, let us all know.
 

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"There is a whole lot of

played on other makes of baritones to great effect. "

And your point would be?

My point was that a Taiwanese Yamaha/Selmer/Yani copy is not a drop-in replacement for a Buescher 400. When you find a Taiwanese Yamah/Selmer/Yani copy that sounds like a Buescher 400, let us all know.
The OP just wants something that doesn't fail him on stage, which the Buescher 400 apparently does.
 

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The OP just wants something that doesn't fail him on stage, which the Buescher 400 apparently does.
Saxophones are very simple machines. If it's behaving inconsistently, buying a whole new horn is like trading in your car when the windshield wiper blades don't clear the windshield any more. There's either some mechanical slop somewhere, or a wonky pad, or a screw that's loosening up, or maybe the the octave mech. got bent a bit.

I mean, if you want a new horn that's fine, but to jump from "there seems to be a problem" to "gotta replace" is a pretty ineffectual response. Do you buy a new house every time the toilet flapper needs to be replaced?
 

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I mean, if you want a new horn that's fine, but to jump from "there seems to be a problem" to "gotta replace" is a pretty ineffectual response. Do you buy a new house every time the toilet flapper needs to be replaced?
I don't want anything. I own a Taiwanese bari sax that I am very happy with. However, should you happen to read the title of the thread, it says: "Looking for new baritone saxophone". Just trying to help the OP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Wow, thank you for all the replies.

I surely will try to get it fixed again. I have found another tech with a bit more experience in vintage American saxophones. Since my usual tech is, with all due respect, a bit of a Selmer (paris) snob.

With regards to the case point. I always transport it in a well fitting protec case.

The octave key has been a pain before so it may be once again. I will take a look at it.

And for what it's worth, me, and my band leader, like the sound of my USA Selmer better than the Selmer mk 6 I've been lending from a mate of mine.
 
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