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i just bought a new Toneking from wwbw 6/30/2011. it's a great horn. it has never occurred to me to flip it. or to return it. do you know how many were bought on sale, and out of those how many are being flipped? anecdotal evidence is notoriously unreliable.
 

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i just looked at wwbw. they do not offer the Toneking at all now. first time i have seen this. neither on sale or not on sale.
 

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I think Keilwerth should start marketing white gloves and yamaha care kits along with their products. They SUCK!
 

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I think Keilwerth should start marketing white gloves and yamaha care kits along with their products. They SUCK!
I completely disagree, though my alto and soprano are Yanagisawas now, my tenor still beats out most horns i've tried expect for my friends Mark Vi but this comes so damn close to it, it's one of the best horns i've ever played SX90R Lacquer. when it's properly setup it actually has a quite focused sound with my refaced otto-link, it fits my sound concept perfectly and has a wonderfully focused rich sound to my ear but huge though.

Have you played any keilwerths? if you have don't read the rest of this but if you haven't don't make statements like that, brings a bad vibe and there's absolutely no reason for it if that's the case, try one they are really quality instruments. Just my opinion dude, everyone is different.
 

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I completely disagree, though my alto and soprano are Yanagisawas now, my tenor still beats out most horns i've tried expect for my friends Mark Vi but this comes so damn close to it, it's one of the best horns i've ever played SX90R Lacquer. when it's properly setup it actually has a quite focused sound with my refaced otto-link, it fits my sound concept perfectly and has a wonderfully focused rich sound to my ear but huge though.

Have you played any keilwerths? if you have don't read the rest of this but if you haven't don't make statements like that, brings a bad vibe and there's absolutely no reason for it if that's the case, try one they are really quality instruments. Just my opinion dude, everyone is different.
I agree mine plays amazingly of course its always about the player and not the sax or the flute or anything !
 

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I completely disagree, though my alto and soprano are Yanagisawas now, my tenor still beats out most horns i've tried expect for my friends Mark Vi but this comes so damn close to it, it's one of the best horns i've ever played SX90R Lacquer. when it's properly setup it actually has a quite focused sound with my refaced otto-link, it fits my sound concept perfectly and has a wonderfully focused rich sound to my ear but huge though.

Have you played any keilwerths? if you have don't read the rest of this but if you haven't don't make statements like that, brings a bad vibe and there's absolutely no reason for it if that's the case, try one they are really quality instruments. Just my opinion dude, everyone is different.
I've played them, I've taken them appart. I'm a tech and a player. I have tried more than a thousand different tenors in almost 30 years of playing, 20 of repairing. They SUCK. It's my personal and professional opinion, both as a musician and as a technician.
 

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Well most technicians I talk to like the selmer VI and the Conn 10m and thats about it . I even have a P Mauriat so I am sure I will get flamed on that too !
 

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do you really mean SUCK? or just less than desirable for YOU. what does Suck mean exactly? what do you play? what doesn't SUCK? i there a sliding scale of suckiness? same for tenor, alto, soprano, etc.? you better be ready to talk and think clearly. who do you think you are talking to here? grow up.
 

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Well most technicians I talk to like the selmer VI and the Conn 10m and thats about it . I even have a P Mauriat so I am sure I will get flamed on that too !
Don't feel like I'm aiming at you man! I don't like COnns and don't care for VI's. I'm a buescher man... so there it goes your "all techs are partial to selmer and conn" theory. They're built like crap. Don't get me wrong, not a bad horn if it were like half the price... and don't even get me started on those silly butt soldered tone holes... :faceinpalm: :tsk: If you consider every Keilwerth european affair out there, setting up factories for the czeck, the russian, etc... I think that's probably the single individual that did put out there more (like "the most") crap copper cookware shaped to remotely resemble a saxophone :mrgreen: like the opposite of Adolphe Sax!
 

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do you really mean SUCK? or just less than desirable for YOU. what does Suck mean exactly? what do you play? what doesn't SUCK? i there a sliding scale of suckiness? same for tenor, alto, soprano, etc.? you better be ready to talk and think clearly. who do you think you are talking to here? grow up.
Suck. I know what I mean. SUCK BIG TIME. built like crap, ugly factory set ups, high priced for the quality youre gettin. Leaking soldered tone holes. Poor customer care and support. Questionable craftsmanship. The chinese gets flamed for about the same that JK saxes are considered one of the "big four".

EDIT BTW I play Bueschers (Aristos, True Tones, 400's TH&C...). I also have Selmers (one RI, one VI and one BA) Conn (50ish 10M no RTH, I hate RTHs) a vintage 61 tenor... I know my horns man. I've played a couple of JK's that played nice, but nothing really worthy of being considered a "big four" or nothing that sets them appart from being another Conn derivative, overthinked euro horn that wants so bad to be american or frech or anything but what it actually is.
 

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Ok well I don't have the soldered tone hole version and maybe thats why mine doesn't suck lol
and like I said I am mostly a flute player and I can play a student flute as good as any pro flute so yes some flutes suck too !
 

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Ok well I don't have the soldered tone hole version and maybe thats why mine doesn't suck lol
It might be that they don't manufacture them, they just stencil that line. I understand that they build the soldered tone holes horns and the cheaper lines are asian outsource

Edit: flute... [rolleyes] I had a flute. Threw it away so I can carry my sax mouthpieces in style :twisted: :bluewink:
 

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Edit: flute... [rolleyes] I had a flute. Threw it away so I can carry my sax mouthpieces in style :twisted: :bluewink:
and THAT's how you pick up a fight over nothing! heheheheheh :mrgreen:
 

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there are no RTHs on a Toneking. bad soldering? no evidence of that. the factory set-up was quite good. i know this because i took it to a tech with far more experience than you and who didn't particularly think he would like Keilwerth. i had a minor sticking pad issue, and customer service stepped up instantly with the cash to pay me tech,no argument. you have your preferences. ok. but to knock other horns with ill-considered prejudice doesn't improve your horn. have you played one of these? btw, i know what a great factory set-up is because i got one from yanagisawa on my sc991. the keilwerth set-up was way better than 3 different Taiwanese top brand horns i have experience with.
 
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