[BigBen23]

I learned how to play with a classic/clarinet embouchure but I adjusted it for comfort to involve less tucking of my bottom lip and I'm curious if you play with double lips or one lip?

 

[twowheels]

Mine is the general style used by many jazz sax players, a variant of the clarinet/tucked lip. Lip more rolled out and supported (on tenor) by the lower teeth but not tight...keep the jaw relaxed. Didn't Stan Getz use the double-lip method? What other celebrity players use double-lip? Any other variants that you mean by "modern"?

 

[BigBen23]

Mine is the general style used by many jazz sax players, a variant of the clarinet/tucked lip. Lip more rolled out and supported (on tenor) by the lower teeth but not tight...keep the jaw relaxed. Didn't Stan Getz use the double-lip method? What other celebrity players use double-lip? Any other variants that you mean by "modern"?

I've noticed a lot of my piers use the double lip bc they believe it's a Jazz embouchure while I use the same variant you use.

 

[turf3]

I play with the standard saxophone embouchure, with teeth on the MP, with the lower lip supported by and partly over the lower teeth. This choice doesn't appear in your choices above. The standard saxophone embouchure is NOT!!! the same as the standard clarinet embouchure.

To me "double lip/modern style" has no meaning. First of all, the number of saxophone players who actually use a double lip embouchure (as opposed to those who fiddle round with it on occasion or for special applicaitions) is vanishingly small. They are not really relevant to the real world of saxophone playing. "Modern style" is undefined here. If you're trying to distinguish the pointed-chin/lower lip stretched tight over the lower lip from the softer standard sax embouchure, then you need 4 choices.

1) Clarinet style with lower lip stretched tight over the lower teeth and the chin flat and pointed
2) Standard sax style with lower lip stabilized by teeth and chin (usually) bunched up
3) Lower lip actaully rolled out
4) Double lip

In my opinion #1 is dysfunctional for saxophone; #2 is standard; #3 is based on a misinterpretation of teachers' instructions intended to wean clarinet players off #1 and onto #2 when they play sax; and #4 is so rare as to be largely irrelevant to most discussions.

 

[A Greene]

Not sure Double Lip is modern. Been around a long time.

 

[lydian]

+1000 to everything turf said. Sax embouchure isn't in your poll.

Most people who do double lip have some sort of dental pain/discomfort issues or simply didn't know any better when they learned. A few of the greats did use double lip, but it was pretty rare. I'm not following the association between double lip and "modern" either. At what point in time does this "modern" embouchure appear, and how is it different from an older style, if there even is such a thing?

My first sax teacher was a clarinet player who naturally taught me a clarinet embouchure. So I understand where you're coming from. I had to teach myself the correct sax embouchure by watching sax players live or on TV (this is back in the 70's, long before youtube). It was pretty slim pickings on TV back then too.

Also, Getz or Coltrane using double lip to any great extent is BS. See below at 6:57. Top teeth are very clearly on the mouthpiece. It only appears the top lip is rolled in because he puffs out the area over the upper lip a little when he blows. He has said in interviews that he only played double lip at times. Old mouthpieces of Getz have teeth marks. Coltrane double lipped briefly due to pain.

 

[AddictedToSax]

I learned how to play with a classic/clarinet embouchure but I adjusted it for comfort to involve less tucking of my bottom lip and I'm curious if you play with double lips or one lip?

Same here. I use a little less lower lip on sax than on clarinet and it's looser but essentially the same. Still working on playing less like a clarinet player after 10 years on sax off and on. More off than on unfortunately.

 

[turf3]

+1000 to everything turf said. Sax embouchure isn't in your poll.

Most people who do double lip have some sort of dental pain/discomfort issues or simply didn't know any better when they learned. A few of the greats did use double lip, but it was pretty rare. I'm not following the association between double lip and "modern" either. At what point in time does this "modern" embouchure appear, and how is it different from an older style, if there even is such a thing?

My first sax teacher was a clarinet player who naturally taught me a clarinet embouchure. So I understand where you're coming from. I had to teach myself the correct sax embouchure by watching sax players live or on TV (this is back in the 70's, long before youtube). It was pretty slim pickings on TV back then too.

Also, Getz or Coltrane using double lip to any great extent is BS. See below at 6:57. Top teeth are very clearly on the mouthpiece. It only appears the top lip is rolled in because he puffs out the area over the upper lip a little when he blows. He has said in interviews that he only played double lip at times. Old mouthpieces of Getz have teeth marks. Coltrane double lipped briefly due to pain.

I think the "lower lip rolled out" is another myth; I think it comes from seeing photos of saxophonists with a fleshy mouth anatomy and concluding that since thre's a lot of lip tissue visible, it means they're rolling it out like a petulant chld pouting. I think what's really happening in those photos is that the player in question is using a standard sax embouchure and because they have a lot of lip tissue, it looks like someone with thin lips doing a "pouting" thing.

I also think some teacher at some point had students do a conscious rolling out, to try to break them of playing the saxophone like it's a clarinet, and a temporary learning exercise got mistaken for how you were supposed to play all the time.

 

[adamk]

I think the "lower lip rolled out" is another myth; I think it comes from seeing photos of saxophonists with a fleshy mouth anatomy and concluding that since thre's a lot of lip tissue visible, it means they're rolling it out like a petulant chld pouting. I think what's really happening in those photos is that the player in question is using a standard sax embouchure and because they have a lot of lip tissue, it looks like someone with thin lips doing a "pouting" thing.

I also think some teacher at some point had students do a conscious rolling out, to try to break them of playing the saxophone like it's a clarinet, and a temporary learning exercise got mistaken for how you were supposed to play all the time.

+1

 

[germanwatches]

Lip more rolled out and supported (on tenor) by the lower teeth but not tight...keep the jaw relaxed.

+1 Today.

BUT.. In high school, I played the clarinet and never touched an instrument after high school. Thirty-one years later, I began the saxophone journey and tried to use that same clarinet embousure on the tenor and it did not work for me.

 

[Dr G]

Jerry Bergonzi sums it up here:

 

[swperry1]

Teeth on top and amount of lip visible varies as my teeth/ mandible support varies all the time, as does the amount of mouthpiece I take in, to get the feel and sound I want at any given moment.
Do you use an embouchure that’s wrong (Clarinet), or one used by such an incredibly small number of players that barely anyone talks about it at all, isn’t a very good poll. I hope you clicked the “I’m confused” option when you created it...because it would appear you are.

 

[lydian]

The more I dig into this, the OP appears to be an experienced player who would surely know that a clarinet embouchure is wrong. So I think it's more a matter of confusing terms. I think he actually means:

1. Not double lip
2. Double lip

But I'm wondering if he means double lip as in top and bottom lips covering the teeth or something else. I've been in a lot of jazz bands in the past several decades, and not a single one of my peers has ever played with a double lip embouchure on sax. So I find it hard to believe a large number of his peers would play double lip because of the mistaken belief it's a jazz embouchure. Or is this a generational thing, and young people are adopting double lip in droves.

BigBen, if we haven't run you off yet, please clarify. Define what you mean by "classic" and "double lip". Are you primarily a jazz or classical player? Are your peers experienced players? Were they actually taught double lip? Is it painful for you to put your top teeth on the mouthpiece? Have you tried a patch?

 

[lostcircuits]

Do you really need to lock it in? I find myself varying the double-lip, no double lip depending on what I play and what MPC I play. Any metal MPC, I prefer the double lip but with using the teeth, I get a bigger and better sound, which of course may be completely subjective because it may reflect more of a bone transmission of the sound to the inner ear.

But especially in some very small venues that require very soft playing, I typically go back to double lip and a tighter embouchure. And the one thing Ron was adamant about was pushing out the jaw, lining up the mouthpiece for perfect axial direction of the airflow and totally relaxing the embouchure for a "great" sound, teeth or no teeth wouldn't matter.

 

[jazzbluescat]

Not sure Double Lip is modern. Been around a long time.

Same here. And the "clarinet" style to play sax....? The only similarities between sax and clarinet embouchure is you stick the mpc into your mouth, with lower lip on the reed and upper teeth on the mpc. Sax requires a much more relaxed embouchure and positioning.

 

[DarrellMass]

I play double lip.....no teeth touching.....with cushioned support of lower lip. I've played this way, since day 1, and it works just fine. No patch, no scratches, no bite marks.

 

[Hassles]

I play double lip.....no teeth touching.....with cushioned support of lower lip. I've played this way, since day 1, and it works just fine. No patch, no scratches, no bite marks.

View attachment 261392

I'll vote for you - but my music teacher wants your address so she can send hate male - pun intended.

 

[Airflyte]

I use the "no embouchure" embouchure.

 

[CluelessEPA]

I'm in the "didn't know any better class" doing what worked and achieved the best tone and flexibility. Having been a horn player for years prior. my emboucher muscles were well developed so there was never a need for biting. Definitely no teeth touching the mouthpiece. Found the best tone with the largest comfortable aural cavity while allowing the reed to vibrate freely by keeping relaxed as possible without losing a seal. Couldn't tell you what my lips are doing because it probably varies. It just seems instinctively automatic based on tone produced. Tried experimenting with single lip after finding SOTW, but never found it favorable. The resulting smaller aural cavity and vibrations transmitted through teeth definitely degraded my tone and perception of it.

 

[lydian]

Do you double lip folks have any issues with altissimo? Seems like the additional pressure up there could get painful. How about soprano, which also requires a little more bit pressure than the lower horns?

Those who dislike the vibrations through the teeth, have you tried a patch?