[Henblower]

A friend is playing my Link Eburnated Bar NY Slant. He recently found another similar mouthpiece in the case of an old tenor sax he bought. While my Slant has more and smaller "chain" elements, his Slant shows larger and fewer elements in the chain. Is there any explanation for this? Thanks.

View attachment 266146

 

[click]

https://theowanne.com/knowledge/mouthpiece-museum/otto-link-mouthpieces/

At the bottom of the page it shows a large linked chain engraving feature with the "New Vintage" slant.

A large circle linked chain is shown near the top of the page.

Close to the middle there is a smaller linked chain design shown.

 

[Henblower]

The piece at the bottom of the page is a "New Vintage (Florida) Slant". It does not say "Eburnated Bar", and as far as I know there is no "New Vintage" copy of the Eburnated Bar.
I found this page at Saxophone.org:

https://www.saxophone.org/museum/mouthpieces/model/183

Clearly enough, both designs can be found among the alto Eburnated Bar Slants: the larger chain with the "oval elements" or the smaller chain with "circle elements". Quite mysterious. Maybe Theo can help. I will write to him.

 

[Rick Detroit]

Definitely not a "new vintage". The facing is a 4*, it's written on the table, and there is no "tone edge" written on the piece. It also has "New York" on the shank. Straaaange!

 

[Rick Detroit]

I should also mention the serial number is "045" which should be EARLIER than yours, Henblower. If it was a perfect world of course. I'll sit back and wait to see if Theo has some words of wisdom!

 

[Henblower]

I sent a mail to him this afternoon and hope he will be able to provide some helpful information. Just like you, I thought the serial number could be a clue that earlier versions have the larger elements on the chain, but then again the pieces shown at saxophone.org offered 4-digit serials with larger chain elements as well. Strange indeed.

 

[pontius]

A friend is playing my Link Eburnated Bar NY Slant. He recently found another similar mouthpiece in the case of an old tenor sax he bought. While my Slant has more and smaller "chain" elements, his Slant shows larger and fewer elements in the chain. Is there any explanation for this? Thanks.

View attachment 266146

Are you sure your friends piece is not an alto peice? Those had the large chain pattern.

 

[Rick Detroit]

Pretty sure it's a tenor..! It seems to be the same size as Henblowers.

 

[DarrellMass]

The "New Vintage" series Links do have the larger links imprinted on them, but I would venture to say that your friend's piece is not one of those, since there are other features that are present on his, that are not on NV pieces. At least not the two that I own (each from different manufacturing time frames).

 

[click]

The piece at the bottom of the page is a "New Vintage (Florida) Slant". It does not say "Eburnated Bar", and as far as I know there is no "New Vintage" copy of the Eburnated Bar.
I found this page at Saxophone.org:

https://www.saxophone.org/museum/mouthpieces/model/183

Clearly enough, both designs can be found among the alto Eburnated Bar Slants: the larger chain with the "oval elements" or the smaller chain with "circle elements". Quite mysterious. Maybe Theo can help. I will write to him.

The Sax org link includes this:

"Charecteristics [sic] of New York Slant Signature:

Otto Link stamp at a Slant
"Otto Link & Co. New York" machining around chamber
Facing stamp on bottom of the table
Circle chain band around body above Otto Link stamp"


But post one shows both a circle chain and a link chain on a NY slant. Both include the eburnated bar inscription.

Over the years, hard rubber otto links which have a chain inscribed might show a large circle link, a small chain link, or a large chain link.

The NY slants do not show the smaller chain link. The New Vintage Floridas show a large chain link just as one of the Eburnated Bar mpcs from NY does.

(Summing up attempt.)




Theo has a chart for the metal links. Seems like one would be useful for the hard rubber ones as well.

Is there one out there?

 

[Henblower]

I think Theo made that very helpful chart for STM Links because they are so popular; hard rubber Links are not as popular as STMs. Until now, the mystery hasn't been solved, but I'm waiting for Theo's answer.

 

[Theo Wanne]

It is my belief the very first Eburnated Bar NY Slant Signature mouthpieces had the larger Chain Link, since most of the ones I have seen had early serial numbers. Though there do seem to be exceptions so it is hard to make a rule out of that. I never noticed much internal geometry design differences between the two designs, so in my mind I always kind of lumped them together. This is why I don't differentiate them on my website, which focuses more on internal geometry evolution. So I guess this is an ongoing mystery, I would love to know more about as well

 

[whaler]

I think Theo made that very helpful chart for STM Links because they are so popular; hard rubber Links are not as popular as STMs. Until now, the mystery hasn't been solved, but I'm waiting for Theo's answer.

I’m not so sure about Tone Edges not being popular at least here in the States. Hard rubber mouthpieces seem to have had a resurgence. I’ve played a Tone Edge or Soloist most of my life but I do enjoy a great STM.
It’s just a lot harder to make a chart of Link hard rubber mouthpiece. I don’t know if it was because there were so many molds but there are a lot of variations in the same runs.

 

[Henblower]

Thanks a lot for your expertise, Theo, and it seems there is a tendency the first or older models had the larger chain with oval elements. Thanks to whaler as well: it seems Florida Slant Tone Edges are very popular over here in Europe, whereas Eburnated Bars are not asked for that much. Maybe that's a bit different in the States.

 

[Sigmund451]

I agree with Theo. Most the older big chain links I have seen came before what we consider Slants.

Typically small tip openings, large chambers but nice pieces.

 

[turf3]

The first embossing tool probably either wore out or got damaged so they got a replacement that was different.

 

[Henblower]

Might be a suitable explanation. Some mysteries will never die. The only ones who could really tell are former Otto Link employees that are about 100 years or older....

 

[turf3]

I can tell you that the vast majority of variations in saxophones, mouthpieces, heck any mass produced item, that garner so much attention 70-120 years after the fact, are simply artifacts of being a mass produced item and the factory needing to keep production going. Do you really think that the plant manager at Otto Link, having ordered a new embossing tool that was desperately needed to keep production going and revenue coming in, would reject it and shut the line down if the new one came in with different size "links"?

 

[Henblower]

My remark about "mystery" was rather "tongue-in-cheek", and at the end of the day I don't care of the different designs. It's just interesting to do some research, and if it fails, I will drop thinking about it.

 

[Tzadik]

Check if it's hard rubber... real hard rubber.
If not, it could be a clone.... oupsss "conterfeit", made in Bulgaria.

The "smaller chain" looks browinsh... so looks like old hard rubber, somewhat oxidated and not hydratated.

The "larger chain" may look too black for a 80yo mouthpiece... and shades of oxidation look strangely dark grey...