[HOUSTON NONET]

One of my pet peeves. What does that mean?
Does it sound like a link?
Theo gives the list below ( great new web site) for players that used a Tonemaster
Ben Webster (tenor)
Lester Young (tenor)
Coleman Hawkins (tenor)
Georgie Auld (tenor)
Buddy Tate (tenor)
Charlie Barnett (tenor)
Vido Muso (tenor)
Trane used a Tone Master (TM) but he souded "a little" different that the first 3 on the list

And what link are you comparing it to---a Master, a 4* a new NY, a TM a dble ring, a STM, a Babbitt STM--- etc etc etc
They all sound different with the same player and reeds etc

Maybe it looks like a Link (hopefully not like the ones made by Oscar Meyer) Old SS Dufoffs look like a link but don't sound like em.

Some bs by saying "like a link" but "less resistence", "not as stuffy", "more projection"--- maybe?
BUT THEN THEY DON'T SOUND LIKE A Link.
I may be stupid but if you like that way link sounds play a LINK. You will still sound like YOU but like YOU playing a Link. But
If you want a link sound buy and play a link---

 

[J.Max]

...except that today's Links aren't like those Links...

 

[sonnymobleytrane]

...except that today's Links aren't like those Links...

Exactly so if you want to play a Link you either have to find a good Link from the 40's or 50's or buy one of these mouthpieces that are like a link.

If the company that makes Otto links got this we would have something!!!
How about Link Classic!!!

 

[Phil Barone]

Exactly so if you want to play a Link you either have to find a good Link from the 40's or 50's or buy one of these mouthpieces that are like a link.

If the company that makes Otto links got this we would have something!!!
How about Link Classic!!!

Actually, when you think about it the best links were much later, Super Tone Masters, not Tone Masters. Everyone is always looking for them because of the cover of Blue Trane but the Super Tone Masters especially from the NY period were best. I copied a really great one, that's my Jazz model, the Tone Master is my NY model. Added a little zing, volume, and brightness and it makes for something really special. Phil

 

[Enviroguy]

Exactly so if you want to play a Link you either have to find a good Link from the 40's or 50's or buy one of these mouthpieces that are like a link.

If the company that makes Otto links got this we would have something!!!
How about Link Classic!!!

Exactly.. And then you have to find a "good one" to boot.

So when they say this mouthpiece is "like a Link", what they are really saying is that their mouthpiece is like a very good vintage Link knowing that the real thing is pretty expensive and hard to find.

 

[dirty]

Well, "like a Link" is kind of a generic description any large-chamber, low baffle mouthpiece at this point.

 

[Honeyboy]

Well, "like a Link" is kind of a generic description any large-chamber, low baffle mouthpiece at this point.

I tend to agree on that. Actually, when I listen to the greats playing Links they all have their own distinctive sound. look at the players mentioned in the original post. They don't all sound the same, so what does a Link sound like? It sounds like the guy playing it. Again, it sounds like the guy playing it. I think you can buy a new Link and pretty much sound like you would if you were playing an older classic model. I really believe if you heard Sonny Rollins playing a modern Link he would sound pretty much like he did on his early recordings. I can emulate the TONE of some of the older players on their classic Links with a modern NY Link (certainly not their dexterity or particular way of playing), but on longer tones where just the actual sound of the note is copied, I can do it. I can also get that tone on a Jody Jazz 7* and can get pretty close with a Berg 130/2! All this stuff about how great the old ones were and the new ones aren't the same seems rather silly to me. It does, however, help those selling such pieces to command very high prices. And it justifies the high cost paid for such a piece.

 

[Dr G]

All this stuff about how great the old ones were and the new ones aren't the same seems rather silly to me. It does, however, help those selling such pieces to command very high prices. And it justifies the high cost paid for such a piece.

Some of the old ones do play well - very well. You don't have to buy one. Thank goodness, neither do I.

 

[Swampcabbage]

Sounds like the missing Link?

 

[Honeyboy]

Some of the old ones do play well - very well. You don't have to buy one. Thank goodness, neither do I.

I'm sure there are many old ones that play well as well as many new ones that do. My main point is it is a mistake for people to think the old ones are better when what thay are hearing are the very best players and pioneers of jazz playing who happen to be playing what was available at the time. It isn't the mouthpiece that sounds great, it is the great player who sounds great. They would sound equally as great on a new Link. The false thinking that it is the old Link that creates the sound is what creates the demand for such pieces and thus their high prices.

 

[sonnymobleytrane]

I'm sure there are many old ones that play well as well as many new ones that do. My main point is it is a mistake for people to think the old ones are better when what thay are hearing are the very best players and pioneers of jazz playing who happen to be playing what was available at the time. It isn't the mouthpiece that sounds great, it is the great player who sounds great. They would sound equally as great on a new Link. The false thinking that it is the old Link that creates the sound is what creates the demand for such pieces and thus their high prices.

I wonder how many of us that played Classic Links before Guardallas and other designer mouthpieces came into fashion in the mid 1980s wish here and now in 2007 that we had our old Links back!

 

[J.Max]

I wonder how many of us that played Classic Links before Guardallas and other designer mouthpieces came into fashion in the mid 1980s wish here and now in 2007 that we had our old Links back!

...or our old Guardalas...

 

[bruce bailey]

I am lucky to have a Florida HR for tenor in a .095 that has a small nick on the tip. Lucky because I can't sell it and it plays great. The temptation to sell these is great when you see them touching $1K. I have had newer ones and they just don't have the overall response although the sound is pretty much there. I could go on with the newer ones if I had to buy one now. It is certainly nearly as good and for $800 I can buy a nice tenor. Also the STM is the only metal I can deal with.

 

[ratboy]

stolen otto link wt mouthpiece

please someone help me; i am sickened to the core of my being by my bad fortune: my ny model guardala black nickel tenor sax was stolen along with the only mouthpiece ive ever used for 33 years - an otto link with the designation wt. i bought it new in nj in 1974 when i was in junior high school for about $40 and it had never been modified. the retailer, lou rose music, said it was about a 7, but it has no such marking. the guardala was a fine horn (with almost as good a tone as that mark VI i let go years ago) and with the link i had a sound i was perfectly happy with - no striving for a better sound. and i never practice. i use rico plasticover number 5's and every reed was a keeper with this piece. the horn/piece combo had a sumptuous pianissimo subtone and if i wanted to blow triple forte the tone was full and unflawed. the band lost over $70,000 when the trailer was stolen and my loss was well over $8000 with all the gear in my gig bag. not one of us had insurance. in order to keep playing ive had to replace stuff on the cheap. im pleased with the inexpensive saxophone.com horn that i bought to replace the guardala. its a great horn for the price. i did a little internet research and found out that bari makes a mouthpiece based on the wt link facing. i felt hopeful because i was told wolf tayne runs bari. but when i got the $115 bari wt II piece from wwbw i was horrified that it was nothing like my cherished link. and the problem is not the new horn - before the guardala i played an old beat up $125 buescher aristocrat for many years. i made lots of money from playing that ugly horn and it had a great tone with my link piece. but with the bari piece i struggled with every note. and the workmanship was absent - it was very roughly finished, with apparently grinder scars on the too wide rails and it had a small, square chamber. playing sax used to be an effortless joy, and now im in hell. with a little more internet research i found out that the link blanks to which wolf tayne applied his facings were large chambered with no baffle, and that the new otto link ny model mouthpiece has a large chamber with no baffle. so i gave sam ash $120 and was again hopeful upon seeing that this piece quite resembled the wt link that i lost. but once again the workmanship was absent - it was very roughly finished, with apparently grinder scars on the too wide rails, the ligature barely functioned, and the chamber was not at all smooth like my old wt. when i blew into it i was appalled. will i never again have a decent tone? it used to be so easy, and automatic, from low b flat to the highest altissimo. is my career ruined? i have not had to physically assault anyone since fourth grade, but now i have bloody redrum on my mind in regards to the disgusting wretch who perpetrated this act of infamy (the theft, not the crappy mouthpiece manufacture). i am heartbroken to the point of despair, for that wretch has stolen a part of me - my sound.

i am not the kind of guy who endlessly fusses with different horns, mouthpieces, ligatures, reeds, etc. ive never felt the need. i havent seen any vintage wt links being sold on the internet, so now i find that i have a large knowledge gap. my question goes out to the pros in this community - please dont respond if youre an amateur, because as a newcomer to this forum i dont know who here has legitimate advice that i can trust: where can i purchase a mouthpiece, new or used, similar to my beloved wt otto link? further, should i repost to a different thread?
sincerely, ralph parillo

 

[heath]

Ratboy sorry to hear about your loss. With that said you're going to find numerous people on this forum that have a lot more expertise then most pros when it comes to knowledge of vintage gear.

Also there's no such thing as finding a good replacement for WT Link as there are so few floating around you might as well go mouthpiece shopping for something similar. We know that Wolf Tayne has a shop in Florida, you might give him a call. And the WT faced Links do come up on Ebay once and awhile, but the price is fairly expensive. If you want to go that route I suggest giving someone like Barone a call and discuss options or go with and current production STM and send it off for a reface with Brian Powell, Mojo, or EZ.....these guys will perfect the mouthpiece

In the end the best lesson is to pay for insurance. $8000 dollars worth of insurance from Clarion will run you about $100 a year. And the other lesson is not to get too attached to your equipment. Better to play what is commonly available and get your sound then to get hooked on playing a piece of gear that you will rarely come across. That said I think you will get your sound back....or perhaps your sound will even improve on something different. And I know what it's like to have a favorite mouthpiece, I have a link that I love, but it's a current production NY that Mojo did so I could get close to it should I ever lose it.

 

[gary]

In the end the best lesson is to pay for insurance.

No kidding! That was the first thing that jumped out at me. ratboy, this is meant for others reading, not chastising you 'cause what's done is done, but folks, for heaven sakes insure your instruments and equipment. There's just no reason not too. It's easy, it's relatively inexpensive and it's just foolish not to do that. Let ratboy's experience be a wake up call for you.

Back to Links:

Well, "like a Link" is kind of a generic description any large-chamber, low baffle mouthpiece at this point.

Exactly, so in that context it is just a point of departure for discussing certain mpc sounds or characteristics and that broad definition you just gave, dirty, is probably the most useful use of that term "Link-like" because, let's face it, many Links the greats played weren't even stock Links anyway.

 

[hgiles]

Yeah with everyone using this kind of adverstising ('Like a LINK'), I decided I'd take their advice and buy a tweaked LINK -- couldn't be happier!

 

[Thomas]

ratboy,
All may not be lost. WT=Wolfe Tannenbaum, he sold the bari mpc company but is retired in Florida. Sadly for him his wife died recently and he is accepting refacing work. Perhaps you can contact him and he could copy your original piece from a contemporary Link STM blank. Search the forum with his name-somebody had posted his telephone number. Couldn't hurt to ask if he would do this for you. I'm sure he'd be impressed for your passion for your stolen piece.

 

[heath]

I think Phil Barone was the one that posted his name and number. Contact Phil and he might be able to help you.

 

[HOUSTON NONET]

Sorry to hear that Ralph
There is a WT Tonemster on Ebay by 10mfan
Mark is a great guy to work with-- quality products. Tell him your story maybe he will cut a special deal
Frank Battaglia

go to
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140156227129&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004