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I recently got a metal yanagisawa mouthpiece and love it, but I’m interested in a ligature that may work better than the stock lig. Any recommendations?
Ligature for metal yani?
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Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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The one that comes with it is a good solid ligature that fits well, so will probably work best.
I find that fabric ligatures like Rovner generally give me a darker sound than the stock metal ligature on my Yany mouthpieces.
I should mention that having purchased several pieces albeit years ago I found that the stock ligatures are slightly too large, hence can be tightened to the limit of the screw travel.
I should mention that having purchased several pieces albeit years ago I found that the stock ligatures are slightly too large, hence can be tightened to the limit of the screw travel.
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I don't necessarily dislike this lig, but it would be nice to have options, the screws are just a bit gnarly on this one. Maybe I'll try another yani lig if I can.
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I'll have to give it a try! Never tried them on bari before.
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cndrewaarey, if you're still searching for an alternative ligature for your yani metal mouthpiece, give the BG universal alto/tenor ligature a try. It fits and provides a nice area of coverage and support for the reed stock with its 2 long parallel gooved rails and it's inverted too. Comes in silver to match the Yani mouthpiece so it's also cosmetically appealing as well as functional.
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I agree, ligatures are grossly over rated especially on this forum. I have a little bit of experience with this and a good two-screw ligature works best because it tightens up consistently every time whereas the fancy stuff doesn't therefore creating the illusion that they make a difference and only add to confusion. You could practice and that's what will make the difference. Phil Barone
As your recommendation to practice more illustrates Phil, I am a student of the instrument, making good faith effort to share my observations, and learn from the experience of people like you. That said, I indulge my natural curiosity in researching and trying different gadgets, often wasting my time, money and energy. Between your comments and those of Pete Thomas in this thread I was inspired to research the question. I don't find formal studies published in my brief search, perhaps in part as Google Scholar lists a striking number of patents.
Plagiarizing Pete (again), his video:
makes the point that ligature changes may be compensating for table or reed flaws. I'll suspect that with your experience with mouthpieces that you could expand on the premise. That mechanism may explain my experience with altissimo as the Rovner Platinum specifically contacts the edge of the reed, not the center. That suggests the edge mechanism from Pete's video may be active in my case as it relates to altissimo.
Plagiarizing your site Phil, I'd also extrapolate from the research suggesting that mouthpiece material does not affect sound from the sax:
https://www.philbarone.com/blog/saxophone-news/post/does-saxophone-mouthpiece-material-matter
The research suggested that a larger "plastic or hard rubber piece thus will open the player's oral cavity more, on average, than a metal piece. It is suggested that this increased oral cavity volume reduces the "edge" or "brightness" in the sound heard by a listener."
In other words, that the player hears a difference that the listener does not.
That article also posited that, "a player may discern a heard difference in mouthpiece material since the sound conduction through the jaw may differ with varying mouthpiece material."
I assume that the article refers to the same mechanism of how we hear our own voice being affected by vibration of our own skull (bone conduction), as opposed to air movement creating sound perception via the inner ear (air conduction). In essence then that the mouthpiece contributes to bone conduction altering the players' perception of the sound.
Perhaps there is some small effect of the ligature on that same sound conduction with a metal mouthpiece. In my case, I was lucky in that I liked the change.
Further supporting the premise that ligatures have little effect on sound of the saxophone for the listener is this video:
In summary then, I sit here corrected. I'll offer thanks for the insight; you may save me time, energy and money in trying these things...
Plagiarizing Pete (again), his video:
Plagiarizing your site Phil, I'd also extrapolate from the research suggesting that mouthpiece material does not affect sound from the sax:
https://www.philbarone.com/blog/saxophone-news/post/does-saxophone-mouthpiece-material-matter
The research suggested that a larger "plastic or hard rubber piece thus will open the player's oral cavity more, on average, than a metal piece. It is suggested that this increased oral cavity volume reduces the "edge" or "brightness" in the sound heard by a listener."
In other words, that the player hears a difference that the listener does not.
That article also posited that, "a player may discern a heard difference in mouthpiece material since the sound conduction through the jaw may differ with varying mouthpiece material."
I assume that the article refers to the same mechanism of how we hear our own voice being affected by vibration of our own skull (bone conduction), as opposed to air movement creating sound perception via the inner ear (air conduction). In essence then that the mouthpiece contributes to bone conduction altering the players' perception of the sound.
Perhaps there is some small effect of the ligature on that same sound conduction with a metal mouthpiece. In my case, I was lucky in that I liked the change.
Further supporting the premise that ligatures have little effect on sound of the saxophone for the listener is this video:
Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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I would strongly disagree with that in regard to my own experience. After adding a 1cm think bite plate, which opened my mouth up way more than just the difference you get with HR type beak as opposed to slim metal beak. I was surprised that I perceived no difference whatsoever, nor did any difference show on the recording. Thinking about this later it makes sense knowing that oral cavity does not have any influence over my sound.
If having a very slightly thicker beak affects some people, then I won't dispute that it may, either real or perceived (whether a perceived difference is player only real or imaginary difference)
I would think that your experience strengthens the bone conduction hypothesis relative to mouthpiece material affecting the player's subjective experience.
For me, I see value in improving my subjective experience of my sound where it doesn't adversely affect the listener; after all I'm the one that always suffers through my playing.
I've noticed (and strongly agree with) your consistent comment that mouthpieces are individual to the player, cautioning people asking for mouthpiece recommendations to try them on their own rather than purchase what works for someone else. Perhaps the same is true relative to ligatures.
That is not to under-emphasize the difference that mouthpieces make in projected sound for the listener, but to consider another possible mechanism for my perceived difference in sound from different ligatures absent significant differences in recordings.
Your video Pete suggests that significant subjective experience between different ligatures should reasonably prompt suspicion reed warping and mouthpiece table inconsistencies. I need to do trials to consider that further with this 'piece.
Not to mention placebo effect with my nice new shiny ligature. It is advertised as space-age!
Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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I predict you'll find it has a nice shiny sound.
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