[Pawel Kaminski]

Over the last couple of years I gathered quite a few ligatures for my Otto Link.
I decided to record the same phrase with each one of them to see if there is any difference in front of the horn.
I have to say that I can hear the difference a lot more when playing them. In the recording they do sound quite similar.

Test includes: Original lig, Selmer 404, Rovner Dark, Francois Louis, Rico Inverted, Rico H

Hope you will like it.

Have a nice weekend!!!

 

[vries1]

Thanks for posting!

Having listened to your video on laptop speakers, I cannot say I heard much of a difference. Rather, I am impressed by the consistency between the recordings!

 

[milandro]

another proof of the fact that they main use of any ligature is to hold the reed

 

[Pawel Kaminski]

another proof of the fact that they main use of any ligature is to hold the reed

Yes it is, however I feel much more comfotable using FL which gives me more center and weight to the sound than in example Rico inverted which for me sounds brighter with less tonal mass. So it's more about how it feels/sounds to you as the audience will propably not hear any difference. At least that's how I think about ligatures.

 

[KennyZ]

.
.
... a few minor differences are noticeable though

 

[click]

.
.
... a few minor differences are noticeable though

I love this vid.

[It seems to me that the difference in reeds, as well as the adjustment and placement of ligature(s) is indicative.]

 

[Lambros]

Nice video, Pawel! Your point is well grounded as it is reasonable/logical. Objectivity versus subjectivity have to balance out as you experienced it. It's hard to get past the initial feeling/reaction but it balances out as you keep on playing and pick out the minor differences that others will not feel but might notice.

Yes it is, however I feel much more comfotable using FL which gives me more center and weight to the sound than in example Rico inverted which for me sounds brighter with less tonal mass. So it's more about how it feels/sounds to you as the audience will propably not hear any difference. At least that's how I think about ligatures.

 

[zorroperro]

+1

Thanks for posting!

Having listened to your video on laptop speakers, I cannot say I heard much of a difference. Rather, I am impressed by the consistency between the recordings!

And...... guess what. I liked a subtle difference I perceive with the Rovner.

 

[Reet McVouty]

Yes it is, however I feel much more comfotable using FL which gives me more center and weight to the sound than in example Rico inverted which for me sounds brighter with less tonal mass. So it's more about how it feels/sounds to you as the audience will propably not hear any difference. At least that's how I think about ligatures.

Well, if using a specific ligature gives you a better vibe then that is great, and that should be your go to lig. However, from a listening standpoint I can unequivocally state that I heard absolutely no difference in your sound between any of the ligatures you used. That's just my opinion, but you asked for it.

 

[JL]

Well, if using a specific ligature gives you a better vibe then that is great, and that should be your go to lig. However, from a listening standpoint I can unequivocally state that I heard absolutely no difference in your sound between any of the ligatures you used. That's just my opinion, but you asked for it.

In a way, I think this is the bottom line (the part I put in bold in the quote above) when it comes to ligatures. Some of us can argue up and down that as long as it fits properly, what lig you use will make no difference, especially to the audience. However, if one is convinced that a given lig feels better or sounds better or just looks better than any other, then that's the one to use, and be done with it.

The only additional comment I'll make is mainly for newer players; don't waste a lot of time, energy, & money obsessing on ligatures. Save that for equipment that at least does, or can, make a significant difference, like reeds (especially) & mpcs.

 

[Reet McVouty]

In a way, I think this is the bottom line (the part I put in bold in the quote above) when it comes to ligatures. Some of us can argue up and down that as long as it fits properly, what lig you use will make no difference, especially to the audience. However, if one is convinced that a given lig feels better or sounds better or just looks better than any other, then that's the one to use, and be done with it.

The only additional comment I'll make is mainly for newer players; don't waste a lot of time, energy, & money obsessing on ligatures. Save that for equipment that at least does, or can, make a significant difference, like reeds (especially) & mpcs.

Exactly, I don't believe a ligature needs to do anything more than hold the reed securely to the MP. That said, I get the point that some people like to adorn their horn/mouthpieces with stuff that makes them look cool or whatever. A few weeks back I bought a reproduction of the Brilhart three band ligature to use with my Tonalin and I spent way too much on it. But! I would have never bought an original as they are crazy stupid with the kind if money they're trying to get for them. Who would pay $500 just for a ligature? Yup, that's the next thread on here, " Is it crazy to pay $500 for a ligature?"

 

[Bjroosevelt]

Am I listening to a different recording than everyone else? Clearly it is the same player and sax, but to suggest that the differences are minor is perhaps an understatement. Part of the challenge is that we are only listening to a 10 second clip of each lig...but if you were to play piece of music for 5 minutes, I think differences would have a significant effect on how the audience interprets the music.

1). Clear differences in the ligature’s ability to hit the high note with clean sound. (Selmer 404 had a definite problem here).
2). Clear differences in brightness through the mid range. IMO Rovner dark was definitely the darkest, Rico H was second. Several of the other ligatures were rather bright.
3). I couldn’t hear differences in the low range.....though to be fair, I was listening on an iPad.

My takeaway is that a ligature can have a definite impact on the tone quality......albeit not as much as changing saxophones.....but changing a ligature is definitely cheaper than buying a new mouthpiece or sax.

 

[milandro]

and of course, changing ligature may impress minute changes in the position of the reed to the mouthpiece and we know all too well that THAT makes a huge difference because, when the reed isn’t responding well what do we do first?

Check the reed’s position.

 

[nvilletele]

and of course, changing ligature may impress minute changes in the position of the reed to the mouthpiece and we know all too well that THAT makes a huge difference because, when the reed isn't responding well what do we do first?

Check the reed's position.

This. (Well, it sounds right to me).

I would think small differences in reed position make for bigger differences than do ligature types.

Cue the Dave Pollack video comparing ligatures . . .

 

[JL]

and of course, changing ligature may impress minute changes in the position of the reed to the mouthpiece and we know all too well that THAT makes a huge difference because, when the reed isn't responding well what do we do first?

Check the reed's position.

Very good point, milandro! Reed positioning is critical, moreso on some mpcs than others, but always a factor.

When comparing ligatures, you have to make certain the reed doesn't move in the slightest while switching the ligs.

 

[click]

....
I would think small differences in reed position make for bigger differences than do ligature types.

. . .

Me, too.

 

[Reet McVouty]

Am I listening to a different recording than everyone else? Clearly it is the same player and sax, but to suggest that the differences are minor is perhaps an understatement. Part of the challenge is that we are only listening to a 10 second clip of each lig...but if you were to play piece of music for 5 minutes, I think differences would have a significant effect on how the audience interprets the music.

1). Clear differences in the ligature's ability to hit the high note with clean sound. (Selmer 404 had a definite problem here).
2). Clear differences in brightness through the mid range. IMO Rovner dark was definitely the darkest, Rico H was second. Several of the other ligatures were rather bright.
3). I couldn't hear differences in the low range.....though to be fair, I was listening on an iPad.

My takeaway is that a ligature can have a definite impact on the tone quality......albeit not as much as changing saxophones.....but changing a ligature is definitely cheaper than buying a new mouthpiece or sax.

OK, well you provoked me to go back and listen to the clip two more times. Once even with my eyes closed! And, I have clearly concluded that I could not detect any discernible difference in sound whatsoever from the ligatures provided in this experiment. Your inference to the ligature's ability to hit a high a high note made me laugh. As far as I know the only ability a ligature has is to clamp a reed on a mouthpiece. The only one with the ability to hit any kind of note here is the player, and perhaps he was just off a bit on that take. Or, perhaps like Milandro said, minute changes to the position on the reed will make a difference. If you perceive that there's differences, that's fine, free country and all that. But, telling us all that there's "clear" differences, that's a little over the top. Though to be fair, you were listening on an iPad.

 

[lostcircuits]

Or, perhaps like Milandro said, minute changes to the position on the reed will make a difference. If you perceive that there's differences, that's fine, free country and all that. But, telling us all that there's "clear" differences, that's a little over the top. Though to be fair, you were listening on an iPad.

At the risk of being redundant and not quoting others (JL, Milandro), reed positioning has a pretty dramatic impact on the sound as has the positioning of the ligature, both length-wise and also with respect to being symmetric (or off) to the axis of the reed/table. I have started to use tactile (fingertip sensing) for centering the reed, which I find more reliable than visual centering and also to make sure that the reed is not moving left/right when tightening the ligature screws (especially on my Meyer M6 alto with the default ligature). So, I am not arguing that there isn't any effect of the ligature but I want to be careful because there are enough other factors that may be secondary - still related to the ligature - that have an impact

 

[Bjroosevelt]

Yes, agree that the position of the reed (when held by different ligatures) could account for all of the sound differences I heard. I find my reed position does have a significant impact on the sound that comes out of my horn. I put alignment marks (using tape) on my mouthpiece for both the base of the reed and one side of the ligature. I have no way of differentiating how much of the sound difference I heard was due to the ligature, the reed placement or other cause.

Whether we agree to there being a sound difference or not, I can say this.....the comparison has not given me any reason/motivation to change my ligature. Currently use a Vandoren Optimum which is not one of the ones tested. Rovner and the Rico H-lig are my spares. I find certain ligatures work better on certain mouthpieces for me.......and that my biggest area of need is not in my brightness or darkness, but in my ability to use good dynamics and timing in ensemble work.

At the same time, there is one really loud trumpet who sits behind me in community band. She is an outstanding player, but I wish she would change some of her equipment, as she doesn’t blend very well.....and so I know there are times when a bit more warmth in the music is very important......The Bassoon player has the same challenge. (Fortunately he has only shown up at 1 concert this year).

My opinion is that all of these understated differences can be heard by the audience when playing live music without a microphone. The difference has a real impact on how comfortable, or warm and fuzzy, or on edge the audience is.

...but again, I’m not on stage with a microphone......and I hear that microphones done reproduce understated differences in tone quality very well.

 

[zorroperro]

Very true.

and of course, changing ligature may impress minute changes in the position of the reed to the mouthpiece and we know all too well that THAT makes a huge difference because, when the reed isn't responding well what do we do first?

Check the reed's position.