[ving]

Hey all,

Has anyone had the experience of moving the ligature forward and back on a given mouthpiece and finding it drastically alters how the mpc responds? I have done this when trying a mouthpiece, usually I find a favorite spot that seems to allow the reed and mpc to operate most efficiently but there usually tends to be a range of locations. I’m currently trying a mpc that really seems to play almost like a different mpc (for the worse) if the lig is a touch farther forward. What would be the characteristics of the facing curve that allows this to happen?

 

[milandro]

there is always the possibility that altering the position of the ligature changes something for example in the size of the opening between reed and tip (in an ideal world it shouldn’t but reeds don’t live in an ideal world ), another is that different reeds may have different thickness at a certain point of contact and that the ligature may present a longer or shorter lay onto the mouthpiece.


So, in order to minimize this I am trying to keep the ligature always at the end of the vamp , whichever reed I use.

 

[DryMartini]

I've thought about this. I think Dexter Gordon and Joshua Redman are two examples of people that put the ligature way back. (Dex sometimes falling off)

I think there is more vibrations that way. Check out Joshua's ligature in this video at 37:25

As far as varying the the ligature on any particular mouthpiece. In my experience it changes the shade of the tone from brighter to darker and more vibrant as you move back.

 

[click]

only using the far screw

 

[B Flat]

When you table is convex from front to rear, the ligature placement can have a big effect.
You can sometimes determine this through performing a suction test with the ligature in various positions.

 

[JimD]

I like to put my lig as far back as is possible as I feel it does as said above, provides a fuller, slightly darker sound. Moving right to the front does the opposite and I can see how this would make you feel the mpc was worse although I’ve had people recommend doing just that so I guess it’s different strokes.

 

[milandro]

When you table is convex from front to rear, the ligature placement can have a big effect.
You can sometimes determine this through performing a suction test with the ligature in various positions.

I think this is very true of convex tables and it is unlikely that a reed would stay absolutely flat during its lifetime too, I am personally not a great believer in the pop test determining anything other that it pops

 

[B Flat]

I think this is very true of convex tables and it is unlikely that a reed would stay absolutely flat during its lifetime too, I am personally not a great believer in the pop test determining anything other that it pops

I also don't place much importance on the pop test.
But often when I'm playing for a period of time and then suddenly low notes become harder or require more work to produce, I have taken the mouthpiece off the neck and tried the suction test and it always fails.

 

[ving]

Yes, on this mpc farther back is definitely better. It still plays farther forward, of course, but the difference is quite pronounced. I find that sometimes I will change the lig position based on how reeds are feeling, harder/softer too. Just one of those small things that I was surprised about.

 

[ving]

(In this case, this is a new mpc and I hadn’t really been paying attention to where I was putting the lig. I just had a few days where it seemed really different and I couldn’t zero in on if it was reeds or what).

 

[swperry1]

It’s just another one of those things where if you feel a difference then maybe it’s worth exploring. If moving the ligature position or changing how tight you clamp it down produces a different feel for you, play around with it. You might find it’s an individual reed thing where more/ less pressure or sliding it one way or the other makes a certain reed speak better for you. With the price of reeds, I say it’s worth trying little tricks like this if it means more playtime on a single reed.

 

[Grumps]

I think over years of playing, we sort this sort of thing out almost subconsciously when we set up our horns over and over, again and again. If I could offer any guidance in this regard, it would be to tighten the ligature just to the point of a light, but firm hold without giving the screw another crank to overtighten it.

 

[Nefertiti]

It really depends on the table and facing curve. I always experiment with reed position and ligature position to try to get the best out of each reed I use.

 

[Dr G]

I think over years of playing, we sort this sort of thing out almost subconsciously when we set up our horns over and over, again and again. If I could offer any guidance in this regard, it would be to tighten the ligature just to the point of a light, but firm hold without giving the screw another crank to overtighten it.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^

And if you feel a need to tighten the ligature any further because it slips when you adjust the mouthpiece, consider adjusting the cork such that less force is needed to move the mouthpiece. The mouthpiece will still be held sufficiently tight to keep it from moving inadvertently.

 

[lydian]

It really depends on the table and facing curve. I always experiment with reed position and ligature position to try to get the best out of each reed I use.

This!

I have an extremely open Berg that's unplayable if the ligature is too far back. On most of my other, more closed mouthpieces, the position doesn't matter so much. Just put it where ever you get the best seal.

 

[ving]

I guess maybe you could file this under “getting to know a mouthpiece”. I know with mpcs I have played a long time I’m keeping the lig in the most preferable spot by repetition without realizing it.

 

[hakukani]

I started to have better response on any mouthpiece when I started putting the ligature halfway between the butt of the reed and the vamp. Depending on the mouthpiece, this can be pretty far back, and others, pretty far forward.
On STMs, The stock ligature puts the ligature almost all the way to the shank, so I think Dex was onto something.

 

[tenorsfan]

Also there's that aspect of extending the life of the reed. Works on a small tip Tonalin anyway. When the lig is back towards the shank as per normal for best sound, and over time the reed starts to get wobbly and the sound ugly, I move the lig closer to the tip and just like magic the sound clears up again, at least for awhile.

 

[turf3]

You need to flatten the backs of your reeds.

Yes, the flatness of the table is a factor, but it's probably limited to 0.002" or so, whereas I've seen and measured out-of-flatness on the backs of reeds in the order of 0.020".

If the back of the reed is convex to 0.020 (and they always go convex, both because that's the moist side so it expands and because of the effects of the reed bending over the facing with the center unsupported) - then every time you diddle round with the ligature you're going to change the way it responds.

Rather than fiddling with a hundred different ligatures and different positions and how much you tighten this screw and how much you don't tighten that one, why on earth don't you just make the back side of the reed flat, and the mouthpiece table flat, and then any old C-clamp, rubber band, or shoestring will suffice to clamp those two flat surfaces to each other reliably and repeatably?

Honestly, for the amount of angst, $$$, and scientifically unsupported fiddling some people do, they could long ago have bought a small straightedge, a small penknife, and flattened the backs of all their reeds - and had money and time left over.

 

[JL]

I agree with turf on flattening the back of a reed. If the reed isn't flat it won't seal well, no matter where the ligature is placed.

At some point in the distant past I tried moving the lig back and forth to see if there was a difference and for the most part it didn't seem to matter. Maybe because the back of the reed was flat. In any case, now I simply push the ligature about half way in the middle of the 'bark' on the reed (as hakukani mentioned) simply with the idea that it will hold the reed well in that position. Seems to work.

p.s. If you want to talk about something that is actually important, real important, that would be reed placement!