Let's talk about the flatted fifth.
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Lydian Dominant
G A B C# D E F G
Whole Tone
G A B C# D# F G
G A B C# D E F G
Whole Tone
G A B C# D# F G
But this will work:
G Ab Bb B Db Eb F
No prizes for the name of that scale.
G Ab Bb B Db Eb F
No prizes for the name of that scale.
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touche. Indeed, there is 6. I would probably go for the whole tone depending on it's context which is why I listed it.Is this an exam question?
If so, Multi Reed, how many notes in whole tone scale?
G Ab Bb B Db Eb F (love the b9, b10
)
Yes, but here's a cool variation on the whole tone that is 7 notes:touche. Indeed, there is 6. I would probably go for the whole tone depending on it's context which is why I listed it.
G Gb F Eb Db B A G
I call that the whole tone bebop scale.
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Most V7 (b5) chords are misspelled and should be V7(#11) chords. I remember seeing one place where the (b5)btruly occurs. But mostly it should be a (#11). In this case, Lydian dominant is the sound desired. Any other sounds like the melodic minor Mr. Thomas used above is for additional sound colors. Usualy a good exams of this being misswritten is on the chord on the third bar of the tune "take the a-train" in one of the older real books.
Your g7(b5) should resolve to G minor.
Your g7(b5) should resolve to G minor.
Why can't it just be a V7 chord with the 5th flattened?
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To me these are two different chords. One implies that the 5th is altered to be flat. One is saying that there is a #11 somewhere in the voicing of the chord but there could be a natural 5th in there also.
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Someone show me a G7(b5) that occurs in a tune where it does not resolve to Gmin, or C#minor. Of course you can transpose this sequence to an key!
The reason it cannot have a b5 is because these chords need the natural 5 to follow the desired harmonic sequence. A V7b5 is a very rare chord! I cannot even remember where it is used in functional harmony.
The reason it cannot have a b5 is because these chords need the natural 5 to follow the desired harmonic sequence. A V7b5 is a very rare chord! I cannot even remember where it is used in functional harmony.
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Now that I think about it, this can be a mis-spelled French augmented 6th! Thus resolving down a half step to F#7 being the V of either B major or B minor. This works because it has the lack of the 5 in the chord. But in jazz, I don't know any tune that specifically calls for this.
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What I am saying is these appear to be two different chords. But they will almost always follow the same harmonic sequence. This means they are actually the same chord. And that chord is the #11 chord you spoke of. When you see a b5 it is either an editing mistake or a personusin that chord because they want the sound that they saw that was using an editin mistake. Or less commonly, the b5 is actually called for.
Play G7(b5), Gmin7 C7, F major on the keyboard.
Now play G7(#11), Gmin7 C7, F major on the keyboard.
Which one SOUNDS more correct to you?
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Ok... The V7(#11) is also used to take the place of the iv(maj6) chord. Both imply the same sound, Lydian dominant. This one is nor a copyin error but a preference of bass line.
So you might also find he progression:
DMajor G7(#11) to A Major
the other way of string this same sound is:
Dmajor dminor(maj 6) to A major.
But overall again, you will not see a b5 be used on any other sequence but the three I have stated in this post and the previous post.
And to answer the OP's question:
GABC#DEFG
as you can see, it is a sound that implies melodic minor. And though it appears to be a V chord which wants to lead to one, it actually does not function in a V-I cadence.
So you might also find he progression:
DMajor G7(#11) to A Major
the other way of string this same sound is:
Dmajor dminor(maj 6) to A major.
But overall again, you will not see a b5 be used on any other sequence but the three I have stated in this post and the previous post.
And to answer the OP's question:
GABC#DEFG
as you can see, it is a sound that implies melodic minor. And though it appears to be a V chord which wants to lead to one, it actually does not function in a V-I cadence.
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Shorter's "Speak No Evil" Bar #11 A7b5 to Bbmin7 in bar #12
AC Jobim used the b5 in a lot of his tunes. One song comes to mind is "One Note Samba" (bar #3)C-7 to B7b5 (bar #4) another is
"Once I Loved" Bridge Measure #9 Amin6 to Ab7b5 (measure 10)
You are right about that, the V/V is usually straight or #11., but there is a b5. You hear people play for example on a III VI II V I in the key of C: E F G A, Bb A Eb C#, D E F G, Ab G Db B, C (eight note's)
Emi7 A7 Dmi7 G7 C
When I play a V I in the key of C i could play: F E D C B A G F, E So i'm playing the C major scale on G7 (in this case from the F down to the E which is the third of C). It gives me a G7/9/13 (i would not put the 11th in the voicing but it's also there)
If i would play the "same" phrase on a G7b5/9/13 i would have to play: F E Db C B A G F, E So i'm playing this scale over G7: C Db E F G A B C.
My favorite is the G7/b5/b9/13.
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My speak no evil chart has A7 alt. To Bb.
My once I loved chart has an A7 (#11) which is in a descending 3625 cadence. The b5 is an editing mistake.
The same thing happens in one note samba. The V7 (#11) chord is used in a non functional way to create color to the chord sequence.
You should know that those two composers use chords in non functional/very colorful ways!
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I think you just created a scale! I can name for you many 7 note scales to play over a chord. But I thought you wanted the right way to play over a certain chord!
Yeah, those notes will work fine, and sound cool with the minor thrd leap in it! But keep in mind, your key center of the tune you are in or the section you are in may present different extensions! Sometimes tunes don't tell you what extensions to play!
Can you tell me where you found this V7(b5) chord? In this situation, context is very important!
Yeah, those notes will work fine, and sound cool with the minor thrd leap in it! But keep in mind, your key center of the tune you are in or the section you are in may present different extensions! Sometimes tunes don't tell you what extensions to play!
Can you tell me where you found this V7(b5) chord? In this situation, context is very important!
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It depends on the context and key. If we're in C, I'd likely play a different scale then if I am in F. Likewise if the tune were written in 1930 vs. 1965. Without more information there are only textbook 'theoretical' answers.
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