[blaine hoopes]

Just picked up a Lazarro curved sop that seems to be a Yani copy. The keywork is quite nice except one of the left palm keys seems to be a very strange location compared to what I'm used to and it's right in a spot that, for my large hands, is awkward. I couldn't find any detailed pictures of a Yani to compare. I'm just curious if Yani puts the D key in this same spot.

I'll live with it for a few weeks to see if I can get used to it - but if I decide to bend it, does anyone know if these modern (cheap) horns have bendable keys or are they a more brittle metal that will snap if I try to bend it?

Here is a picture and I've drawn in where I wish the key were located:

 

[Arundo Donax]

I found this photo of a Yanagisawa curved soprano:

https://www.kesslerandsons.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/yanagisawa-scwo10-lhpalm.jpg

 

[saxoclese]

I am 99% certain that the keys are brass that is on the softer side and should bend easily. I would suggest gripping the key arm behind the hinge tube with smooth jawed pliers to immobilize that section while using your fingers to bend the key touch to the desired position. That way there will be no danger of bending the hinge tube and causing the key to bind.

 

[blaine hoopes]

I found this photo of a Yanagisawa curved soprano:

https://www.kesslerandsons.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/yanagisawa-scwo10-lhpalm.jpg

thanks for finding that picture. Looks exactly where my keys are. I'm going to leave it alone for now and see if I get used to it.

 

[skeller047]

Something that might help is to put risers on the palm keys. The easiest way is to make them from Sugru or something like that. I’ve done that in the past and it makes a big difference.


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[turf3]

Looks like it's already been bent.

All those key arms are 99.99% probable to be stamped from C36000 brass, which is quite ductile and inexpensive. I'd just bend it over to where you want it.

It's well worth the investment in a pair of cheap needle nose pliers and grinding the serrations off the jaws for just this kind of thing.

I don't think key risers will help if the key touch is laterally displaced from where you want it. Get them correct side to side and then raise them if needed.

 

[Arundo Donax]

More photos of a Yanagisawa curved soprano sax:

 

[blaine hoopes]

Thanks for posting those pictures. I tried to duplicate the angles as best I could (didn't get there - but oh well)

 

[theneighbordubh]

You can probably find some smooth tipped pliers for pretty cheap also and save yourself the effort of grinding off the teeth... after finding something to grind off the teeth.

 

[Arundo Donax]

Your Lazarro's palm keys seem very close to what I show on the Yanagisawa.

When I finger high D through F on those keys, it seems very natural - nothing is opened accidentally nor is anything closed accidentally. It's different, but not too much different than my old Yamaha tenor.

Maybe play it a lot for a month and see if you adapt to it.

 

[blaine hoopes]

Yes! I'm getting used to it now and I probably wouldn't be able to go back to the old horn now without it feeling funny. Thanks for posting your photos

 

[SoulMate]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but...
Does anybody know what the function is of the double key/pad just above the high B key in the second picture of the Yanagisawa and also visible on the third picture of the OP's pictures?

The pad closest to the tone hole is not driven by any of the actuators. It goes down when the upper pad is going down when pressing C or B. They always move in tandem.
So what is the function of this double pad construction?

 

[milandro]

I think you are referring to the Whisper key with a doughnut construction, it opens differently when using the octave (or not) , it is there for intonation reasons,

as for pliers, you can simply put some tape on any good flat pliers , there is no need to grind them down

 

[SoulMate]

Thanks Milandro! Looked it up and it's more clear now.

 

[saxoclese]

High C# is sharp on most saxophones and on some sopranos excessively so. This "piggy back" or "donut" key as I call it closes the lower portion of the key with the hole in it when pressing the octave key to reduce the "venting" of the C# and lower the pitch. A more simple variation of this concept is to add a "C bridge key" mechanism where pressing the octave key raises the upper stack "back bar" thereby closing or partially closing the C pad cup just above the B. The photo below shows one I fabricated for a True Tone alto that is removable. Curt Altarac created an adjustable mechanism to do the same thing called "Clyde the Glyde".

 

[turf3]

That's slick!

Some Martin Handcraft altos have this too. Mine doesn't.

Selmer apparently made a design change to eliminate the sharp upper C# and ended up with the notorious flat LOWER C# which is a heck of a lot harder to deal with. (Oh, wait, Selmer made a mistake? Can't be!)

 

[AddictedToSax]

You can probably find some smooth tipped pliers for pretty cheap also and save yourself the effort of grinding off the teeth... after finding something to grind off the teeth.

I just wrap the tips with electrician's tape. Then the pliers are still useful for other stuff.

 

[blaine hoopes]

My first horn was a Conn straight sop. I have always adjusted the old Conn sopranos so that the key only closes half way with the octave key for the same reason. I always assumed it was intended that way by Conn but everytime I would see a Conn sop that had been in for service they would adjust to remove that halfway position and the high C# would be out of tune. I think the first time I ever saw that doughnut stacked pad was on a Vito (Yanagisawa stencil I believe?) about 1972

BTW ... in 1972, all the sax players and music store owners said Yanagisawa was cheap Japanese garbage - they said the same thing about Yamaha. I tried telling a sax tech I know about how well built this cheap horn is and how well it plays and some adjustments/mods I did to it --- his response was "you can gold plate a mud flap but it's still a mud flap"