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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Leaving a Cannonball Pete Christlieb vintage tenor for a 10M. Is this wise? I'm 50 and played in junior high school and really want to get good. Had a few lessons via skype with Greg Fishman and David Valdez but my work schedule makes it difficult. Also started transposing various solo's using Transcribe software. I think I'm on a good path but more than one local DC player and repair tech have told me you have to totally commit to the 10M because of the keywork. The picky table and palm keys are significantly different from the Custom Z I've played on and the Cannonball. At this late start would you go vintage or modern? Or play them both? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks
 

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Leaving a Cannonball Pete Christlieb vintage tenor for a 10M. Is this wise? I'm 50 and played in junior high school and really want to get good. Had a few lessons via skype with Greg Fishman and David Valdez but my work schedule makes it difficult. Also started transposing various solo's using Transcribe software. I think I'm on a good path but more than one local DC player and repair tech have told me you have to totally commit to the 10M because of the keywork. The picky table and palm keys are significantly different from the Custom Z I've played on and the Cannonball. At this late start would you go vintage or modern? Or play them both? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks
Have you asked Greg or David about this?

The "Christlieb" is known to many as a good tenor - what is it NOT delivering for you? Has it had a checkup with a tech lately?

If you "really want to get good", commit to your horn and PLAY. On the other hand, if your idea of a great time is spending time and money chasing horns and mouthpieces, then do that.
 

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It is totally up to you - you have to figure out if the 10M works for you or not. For some people the ergos of a 10M are not a problem at all, for some people the ergos are an issue but worth putting up with or getting used to in order to get the sound they want, for some people the ergos are just too big of a problem, and some people just prefer the sound of a different horn. If you have the 10M already, play it and see if it rocks your boat or not. If you haven't bought it yet, have you tried it out? If the vintage horns are attractive to you, at some point you are going to have to try them out.

I started saxophone late - I started clarinet in 4th grade, but sax much more recently. I started with a vintage Vito Kenosha alto that my wife already had, and when I went to tenor I started with a Yamaha (the safe and semi-standard choice) but didn't like the sound, so I went to vintage tenors. I actually found I had a different issue than most people pointed out - I discovered that on most tenors the right hand touches were too spread out for me to finger quickly. So even though I love the sound of the 10M (and the sound of a King Cleveland that I had), that aspect made it not fun to play, and I spent some time trying to find horns that worked for my right hand as well as sound-wise plus. I ended up with a Dolnet Bel Air and a Bundy Special (Keilwerth stencil), both of which I like.

If you like vintage, give it a try and see if it works. Plenty of people are playing vintage horns, so there is no universal reason not to. It sounds like you have tried some modern horns, so you have a basis to compare it with. By all means try a 10M, but if that doesn't work, try some other vintage horns, too. Have fun!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks so much for both of your replies. I have a 10M, and I love it. Instead of chasing horns, I want to simplify and only have one. Just wondering if I would progress faster on a modern horn. The only note that bothers me on the 10M is C# (very stiff and heavy). What concerns me is that it's so freeblowing. Every note on the horn pops out instantly with very little effort compared to the amount of air and control it takes on my Custom Z and Cannonball Vintage. All my horns are in top shape and serviced even when they've been mostly living in a case. So I know the difference isn't due to leaks. When I practice long notes, I go a lot longer on the 10M. Wondering if that's an issue in developing as a player.
 

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I think you can play on either and its totally what you connect with. Its more about time practicing than the horn. I sold my 10m. Of all the vintage horns I own it was the least friendly. However it was more the neck angle than the ergos of the pinky table. I think of all the vintage horns with left hand bell keys the Martin Comm I and II have the most friendly ergos.
 

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If you already have both, and prefer the 10M, GO FOR IT. If it is too freeblowing, dial in the resistance with choice of mouthpiece and reed.

Stick with either, and you'll progress much faster.

Commit.
 

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If it's sound you're going for it's hard to beat a 10M. There's a few thing that annoy me about them but I had one for years and usually kept one around. Not any more. I got tired of the drastic difference between the G and A when the octave key on the neck opens. On Selmers it's not even noticeable.
 

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Leaving a Cannonball Pete Christlieb vintage tenor for a 10M. Is this wise? I'm 50 and played in junior high school and really want to get good. Had a few lessons via skype with Greg Fishman and David Valdez but my work schedule makes it difficult. Also started transposing various solo's using Transcribe software. I think I'm on a good path but more than one local DC player and repair tech have told me you have to totally commit to the 10M because of the keywork. The picky table and palm keys are significantly different from the Custom Z I've played on and the Cannonball. At this late start would you go vintage or modern? Or play them both? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks
I live in DC and I have both modern horns and a 10M. If you want to meet up and try another example of a 10M to see if the issue is specific to you or the horn or to just discuss sax, PM me to arrange a meeting.
 

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I switched from modern horns to a 277k 10M last year and absolutely love it. For me there is nothing you can't do on these horns, it's just a matter of slow precise practice to build technique the same way you hopefully would on any horn. For advanced players the adjustment period is probably longer, but for relatively new players I think it's a really minor issue. There are some vintage horns out there with really awkward ergonomics, but IMO the 10M isn't one of them.

Pick the horn that you enjoy playing the most and don't overthink things too much! You will sound the best on the horn you are most comfortable on. Definitely don't play both ..... pick one, commit, and don't look back.
 

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Dexter Gordon for me sounds better in many ways on the 10m but he played Conns from a young age until his 40's. I would like to play the 10m like he did but I know it would be an mistake to switch and I would sound the same anyway.

And often ften the technicians replace pads etc on the horn and charge like 1000 dollar, but they can't adjust the keyheight correctly so it the thing plays good enough in tune and feels right. It's importent to get the right guy that knows how to get an old horn to play as it did like 80 years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for all your comments. I really appreciate your collective knowledge and experience. Going with the 10M!!! Thanks
 
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