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Discussion Starter #1
I can't get some leaks fixed,I re padded her about six months ago.I know I kinda rushed in and didn't level the key cups.Someone mentioned leveling the tone holes and I thought that wasn't right,does anyone have experience filing these beveled tone holes ? They look great seem to sturdy to warp ?

I have these small leaks,I have pillowed them,added shellac heated and adjusted.I can get her to play nice with a relaxed approach on MP,serious attempts at even scales and I get gurgling on low B and C#.I put some different things in the bell and that helps.Is gurgling a leak problem ?

I feel I need to tear it down remove the problem pads and level those key cups,at the same time I could check tone holes for level.The bell to body brace is slightly pushed in to body.Maybe this has effected the adjoining holes.A tech advised against fixing this as he felt it was risky and could damage the soldered tone holes.

I did my Conn Bari after this and was careful to level all the cups,dry fit to adjust and I had a Tech level the tone holes (drawn) it plays perfect(despite low C not level yet) and to be honest I have yet to put a light in to check since I put pads in with shellac.It plays so well and my Tech is waiting for a file to arrive in mail (Canada Post is on strike)he did not have file big enough for the low C and did not want to use a flat file.

So I really think I was too in a hurry and messed up on my Martin,don't want to but would order a few of these problem pads if necessary.

I would like to fix this and move on but maybe if I can't I will invest in a good set up.A local Pro player and Tech I found would be my choice,real great guy.Anyone in Vancouver B C, check out Chris Startup at WindWorks.He plays for Dal Richards Orchestra and others.

http://youtu.be/o7FITWEGlHY
 

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Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
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Can you see leaks with your light? You need a bright light and looking in a darkened room helps. Also only apply light finger pressure when testing for leaks otherwise you won't get a true reading.

The concern isn't so much that the toneholes warped than they started off unlevel- they were buffed (either for original lacquering or relacquering, same effect) and/or leveled imperfectly at the factory (almost every single time by every manufacturer ever- you just can't quickly level toneholes in a factory setting and have it be perfect).

BUT pads can seal without level toneholes, just not as easily and not for as long. Its an extra variable, but not one that can't be overcome.

Have you checked all of the solder joints on the toneholes themselves?

Have you checked that your neck tenon isn't leaking? JL Smith sells a good tool for this- basically you want to seal the body just below the tenon, insert the neck, and do suction tests with the neck screw loose AND tightened. It should leak neither time.

Burbling is a sign of a leak or sometimes a mouthpiece that is ill-matched or obviously it can be player error (usually the result of not enough "support" and a throat that needs to be more open).

My guess is a leak- either pad, tonehole, or neck tenon. Check around the region of the B- sometimes a localized burble or stuffiness is a the result of a small leak one octave (on the body) above the troublesome note.
 

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Also, close the keys and check the bases of the tone holes themselves. They are soldered and I have seen big leaks in the soldered areas where the tone holes are soldered onto the saxophone body tube. Check out what Matt suggested before you check the tone holes.
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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I feel I need to tear it down remove the problem pads and level those key cups,at the same time I could check tone holes for level.The bell to body brace is slightly pushed in to body.Maybe this has effected the adjoining holes.A tech advised against fixing this as he felt it was risky and could damage the soldered tone holes.
A good tech ought to sort this. If the body is dented by the bell brace, they should sort that, and then fix any toneholes that might be affected locally. As the others have said, check for invisible leaks at the tone hole base, I had a few on my The martin that needed resoldering.
 

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I'd say the problem is with the inexperience of the person installing the pads. Good technicians are paid to install pads so that there are no leaks. From my experience - decades of high-precision flute work before even touching a sax, this actually takes a lot of experience to do well.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yes, I know I am an rookie,need a hobby and being short of cash I find this a great pastime.

I have re checked for leaks in dark, all seal with light pressure now.I cannot see any leaks around the soldering of tone holes,they look intact.

I Felt MP was a little loose so re corked,neck tenon loose,put a piece of ultra suede temporarily under screw to tighten -works better.I am getting better results on scales with all this and have and will continue to improve breath support.

I have Arthritis that effects chest expansion, no problem, I just need to breathe more often.

The Runyon Custom with spoiler and the Legere synthetic Reed seem to work best.I am going to take my horn and try some other modern MP's at local stores to get some comparisons.

Thanks for your replies !
 

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... neck tenon loose,put a piece of ultra suede temporarily under screw to tighten -works better.
If you have a "The Martin Tenor" aka Committee, aka Comm III, then the neck screw only keeps the neck from turning. Tightening the screw too much will deform the receiver causing it to leak more. I've come across many Martin Committees that leak at the joint. The tenon and receiver must fit without leaks or you are guaranteed to have all sorts of response issues. You can use some heavy grease on the tenon to see if it temporarily seals a leak.

Good luck!
 

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What Jorns said.

If the neck tenon is not sealing, that is a job for a tech, especially on a Martin with the teardrop neck screw mount. Not only will about $800 in tools be needed to expand (and possibly shrink back if overexpanded) the neck, but unsoldering and resoldering of the neck tenon will be involved since the teardrop is in the way. A neck tenon leak will drain power and stability from the entire horn.
 

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I'm a bit confused. In your first post you say you have leaks left and you can't fix them. Did I misunderstand and you only thought you had leaks? Because in the second post you said you checked and there are no leaks.

I agree with the others about the tenon, need to check if it seals. A leak there can cause all sorts of problems. A few things about the neck tenon and tools:

Have you checked that your neck tenon isn't leaking? JL Smith sells a good tool for this
I have the tool (for alto and tenor) and disagree, it's an awful design for this tool. However, I suggested an improvement to J.L. Smith that would solve the main problem he said they would make the change in the next run. I can't especially recommend the tool now but if they make the change and it's good then I will definitely recommend it (disclaimer: I won't gain anything by anyone buying the new version of the tool).

Not only will about $800 in tools be needed to expand (and possibly shrink back if overexpanded) the neck, but unsoldering and resoldering of the neck tenon will be involved since the teardrop is in the way.
Not necessarily. I'm not sure if that cost included soldering tools, but anyway I have more than that in neck tenon tools alone. But, last time I fit a The Martin (tenor) neck I used just a $70 tool (cost me more with international shipping and tax though). However, I did have all the other tools for safety in case I needed anything other than the $70 tool :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What I should have said was I had some very small leaks with very light pressure.With normal pressure then it seals.I still feel I could have avoided this by leveling the key cups and dry fitting pads.Something is still amiss as without something in bell I get that "gurgling" on lower notes.Strong air support is a must playing this horn.I get better response in upper octave ,lower notes really need a extra push,should play a whisper on low Bb ?. I thought these Martin's were easy blowing-give em 50% get 100% ? Neck Tenon ? Tone hole leak or MP choice,I have come to conclusion that I need to have this looked at by a Tech.
 
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