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I'm trying to get my head round some of the Latin chord structures i.e in terms of ii v i and key centres or modes used. Some of the bossas are a bit tricky. I wonder if anyone can help out.

(I'm playing tenor usually. )

Agua de Beber. in Em
The section for soloing (as per Hal Leonard). This seems to start with a ii v i iv then move to G for a ii v i then has a chromatic sort of sequence a ii v i in Em again then a middle I can't figure out.

F#7(b9)¦ B+7(#9)¦Em7¦A9¦Am9¦D9¦GM9¦GM9 ¦F#9 F9(#11)¦Em7 Ebdim7¦G9/D G7(#9)/D¦F#7(#9)/C#¦ F#7(b9)¦ B+7(#9)¦Em7¦E+7(#9)¦¦
(middle bit)
A13 A+7¦Am9¦Em7¦E+7(#9)¦A13 A+7¦Am9¦Em7Bm7(b5)¦¦
Finishes with some ii v i
Em7¦F#7¦ B+7¦Em7¦F#7¦ B+7¦Em7¦CM7¦Em7¦Em7 (DS al coda)

Any ideas about how to treat the funny bit and middle part?
 

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My take on that would be not to get too hung up on trying to find traditional functions (ii-V-I, etc) for that section. It appears to be just a descending progression. I would look for descending guide tone lines, perhaps try to find an ascending line (to provide contrast to the descending bass) and/or look for any common-tones.
 

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Jobim uses that a progression a lot. Whenever I get a lot of that sort of thing I have to sort out, I will:

1 Try to ignore the upper extensions.
2 Try to ignore for a second what note is in the bass.
3 If it still does not start looking like something familiar I will add another bass note that does.

Starting with the Em part I would look at it like this instead:

Em7 Adim | D-7 G7 | ... it probably looks more like something you've played before.

For the middle bit, I would find the voice that's moving chromatically to get the sound of it in your head:

(notes): F# - F - E then a G - G # - and A; then it kinda repeats
 

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My take on that would be not to get too hung up on trying to find traditional functions (ii-V-I, etc) for that section. It appears to be just a descending progression. I would look for descending guide tone lines, perhaps try to find an ascending line (to provide contrast to the descending bass) and/or look for any common-tones.
This is good advice. This tune, there are sensible guide tone lines built into the progression (bass line, also like A#-A-G-Gb-F-E, etc.). Spend an hour or two with it at the piano and you'll see where it goes, getting deep into what chord functions precisely as secondary dominant or subdominant doesn't get you much in this case. Also some choruses in this tune I'll sometimes go back to the lick from the intro/outro or anything else in Em in this spot.
 

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But there is a a# in the melody so i think there is no F#m. I think F#7 (in scale of B) and then F7 #11 is moll-dur (for americans the scale of GABCDEbF :)) so in the key of G because Emin7 (next chord) is inversion of G6.
The scale can be G bebop (GABCDD#EF#) inthis you see D#F#AC (which you can see as B7b9 but also as D7b9 (which you can see as moll-dur as well:)) on this chord you can use still this scale and you play to G7.

I hear the G7#9 as C7 (leave the 4th note out) which is the same as next chord F#7 (like Gminmelodic:F#GABbCDE) so its easy to go from one to the other.

The middle part i see as A7 (in D)one bar and Amin i play like its D7 one bar like im going to G and thats true only the bass note is E so again G6inversion .

on Bminb5 i play the scale of C
 

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middle part, the emin7 is with an C# (in key of D) but i think its also pretty to play Emin6 like the 1st chord of the tonalaty Emin with the scale of EF#GABC#D# or melodic.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the replies. I'll try some of the suggestions. Next one I want to look at is Wave. I can improvise OK on this but can't make much sense of the chords.
There's a lot of switching from major to minor. Seems ot be in E major but starts with Eminor, for instance. More of that chromatic type thing with moving from Amaj to Amin7 to Ab7.

Intro: E-7 A7 repeated ii v in D?
EM7¦Cdim7¦B-7¦E7¦AM7¦A-7¦Ab7¦Db7¦C#-7 F#7¦C7 B7+9¦E-7 A7¦E-7 A7¦¦
E-7 A7¦¦A-7¦D7¦GM¦GM¦G-7¦C7¦FM¦F#halfdim B7+9¦¦
EM7¦Cdim7¦B-7¦E7¦AM7¦A-7¦Ab7¦Db7¦C#-7 F#7¦C7 B7+9¦E-7 A7¦E-7 A7¦¦
 

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Thanks for the replies. I'll try some of the suggestions. Next one I want to look at is Wave. I can improvise OK on this but can't make much sense of the chords.
There's a lot of switching from major to minor. Seems ot be in E major but starts with Eminor, for instance. More of that chromatic type thing with moving from Amaj to Amin7 to Ab7.

Intro: E-7 A7 repeated ii v in D?
EM7¦Cdim7¦B-7¦E7¦AM7¦A-7¦Ab7¦Db7¦C#-7 F#7¦C7 B7+9¦E-7 A7¦E-7 A7¦¦
E-7 A7¦¦A-7¦D7¦GM¦GM¦G-7¦C7¦FM¦F#halfdim B7+9¦¦
EM7¦Cdim7¦B-7¦E7¦AM7¦A-7¦Ab7¦Db7¦C#-7 F#7¦C7 B7+9¦E-7 A7¦E-7 A7¦¦
Don't think of E-7 A7 as a ii V7 in D. It's in Em (Dorian). Play a minor blues with some F# and C# thrown in. E is the tonic (not D).

Wave is just an embellished (extenstions and chromatic bass notes) 12 bar blues with a bridge:

E | Adim | E7 | E7 |
A | A-7 | Emaj9 | E7b9 |
F#-7 | B7b9 | Em (dorian) | % ||

...don't play it bluesy though (until the minor parts). Play pretty G#s and D#s until you get to the minor part. Put these changes in front of you when you improvise and see if it doesn't get you closer to the sound you're looking for.

Bridge is EASY, just typical ii - V - Is.
 

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Wave is just an embellished (extenstions and chromatic bass notes) 12 bar blues with a bridge:

E | B7b9 | E7 | E7 |
A | A-7 | Emaj9 | E7b9 |
F#-7 | B7b9 | Em (dorian) | % :||
Geez, Haywood, thanks. I never thought of it that way.
 

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Geez, Haywood, thanks. I never thought of it that way.
Yep, most things can look more complicated with a different bass note and re-interpretation of the chord, but most tunes are really just I, IV, V kind of stuff, once you know what substitutions were made.
 

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. . . most tunes are really just I, IV, V kind of stuff, once you know what substitutions were made.
I-IV-V I can do. :mrgreen:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Try to use your ears instead of lookin at the paper.
I usually do. I use the Aebersold bossa playalongs. I'm trying to get more of an understanding of chord progressions and see if there's any ways of simplifying tunes. With standards it can be easy enough to spot some key centre shifts. Blue Bossa is one that is basically composed of ii v is. I can improvise on most of the bossas fairly well - some are easier than others. But when I look at the chords, I can't make sense of them like on other standards. Partly it is a lot of chromatic shifting - also because of the chord extensions dont' seem to fit in with the scales.
There's a lot of that A to Amin to Ab movement that I'm not sure if there is 'proper way' of dealing with.
When I look to find key centers in bossas little of it seems to fit.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Don't think of E-7 A7 as a ii V7 in D. It's in Em (Dorian). Play a minor blues with some major 2d and 6ths thrown in.

Wave is just an embellished (extenstions and chromatic bass notes) 12 bar blues with a bridge:

E | B7b9 | E7 | E7 |
A | A-7 | Emaj9 | E7b9 |
F#-7 | B7b9 | Em (dorian) | % :||

...don't play it bluesy though (until the minor parts). Play with major thirds and sevenths until you get to the minor part. Put these changes in front of you when you improvise and see if it doesn't get you closer to the sound you're looking for.

Bridge is EASY, just typical ii - V - Is.
Thanks. That looks like it'll help some.
 

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I usually do. I use the Aebersold bossa playalongs. I'm trying to get more of an understanding of chord progressions and see if there's any ways of simplifying tunes. With standards it can be easy enough to spot some key centre shifts. Blue Bossa is one that is basically composed of ii v is. I can improvise on most of the bossas fairly well - some are easier than others. But when I look at the chords, I can't make sense of them like on other standards. Partly it is a lot of chromatic shifting - also because of the chord extensions dont' seem to fit in with the scales.
There's a lot of that A to Amin to Ab movement that I'm not sure if there is 'proper way' of dealing with.
When I look to find key centers in bossas little of it seems to fit.
What is in the books it is lot of times not good, for instance the G#9/D in agua is supposed to be a C7 /G so....
Also when you look at the paper you forget that there are more options for a chord for instance the 1st chord Dmaj7 could be D6 and to see it like that, gives a whole different input.
So this Aminor7 in wave is not what it seems to be, it could be a lot more.
 
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