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Discussion Starter · #81 ·

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It's actually the correct neck, it has the strange swoop at the keycup and the inverted beehive shaped octave pip. That was very late King.
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
Makes sense. Thanks Jaye.
 

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According to saxpics:


I can say that the horns after 511xxx have "USA" engraved on the bell instead of "Eastlake, Ohio"
Not so. Saxpics is wrong on that one.
I have a 520xxx S20 tenor (75-'76) engraved Eastlake, Ohio

I will add that the tone hole chimneys are not drawn. It has thick, brazed tone hole chimneys throughout.

Someone on the S20 owners club on facebook mentioned that he thought brazed tone hole chimneys on S20s lasted to approximately the 530xxx range.
 

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I have a 520 Eastlake which I bought at Manny's , in 1972 . I was persuaded to try it because my last name means KING. I was replacing my stolen Mark 6. It has been good to me all this time
 

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Not so. Saxpics is wrong on that one.
I have a 520xxx S20 tenor (75-'76) engraved Eastlake, Ohio

I will add that the tone hole chimneys are not drawn. It has thick, brazed tone hole chimneys throughout.

Someone on the S20 owners club on facebook mentioned that he thought brazed tone hole chimneys on S20s lasted to approximately the 530xxx range.
They changed "Eastlake" to "USA" gradually across the lineup. Most King brasswinds around 466000, and King saxes maybe between 540000 and 570000. It was later still with Cleveland saxes, and I'm sure there's exceptions where horns were completed later or bells were pre-engraved and not used in order (or a dishonest shop replaced the bell - I saw one just recently where someone put a Cleveland bell on an Eastlake).

Interesting that yours has brazed toneholes. King was advertising in the late '60s that they had drawn toneholes on everything, except for sterling bells and the bows and bell on baritones.
 

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In the words of Pete Hales “.......I can say that the horns after 511xxx have "USA" engraved on the bell instead of "Eastlake, Ohio"
Nope.
I have an Eastlake engraved S20 tenor 520xxx.

It has brazed tone holes, as do my 50s' Cleveland tenor and my, no surprise, late '40s and '50s Zephyr tenors.
 

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I can't find a thread about just this topic, so I'll just be adding another few bits of data to this fire... I am the proud new owner of an old King Cleveland (pre-615 "acorn" engraving), purchased for a steal on ebay. Purely coincidence, but according to the serials, it was made in the same year as my S20! Sure enough, the body tubes are identical, even the bow looks the same. Keywork and guards, bell and neck tenon (S20 is much thicker) are the only apparent differences. I bought it as a backup, hoping it would be sort of similar to the S20, and it really is startling how close they are. Even more startling is the fact that these 615s are selling at 1/10th the S20 price!
When the Acorn returns from its obligatory ebay horn tune-up I will post comparison pics.
 

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I am actually looking at a Model 2416 at a local shop here...I test played it today and didn't pick it up because there was some obvious keywork that needed to be done and I wanted to find a local tech in my area here in Atlanta(I haven't been here long).

Its marked Model 2416 and the serial is 858xxx...Curious if anyone has input..After playing it today I was very pleased with it's sound, weight..It seemed like a crazy sax overall other than the keywork having issues in left key paddles being out of wack. I just don't what financially what it would take to get it back to greatness, but they are selling it for $880.00
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
That price seems a bit high, especially considering it needs some work. But basically, that is a super 20 without the name and the engraving. I would try offering them 600 and explain all the work it needs.
 

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That price seems a bit high, especially considering it needs some work. But basically, that is a super 20 without the name and the engraving. I would try offering them 600 and explain all the work it needs.
I ended up going another way, I picked up a super 20 466,xxx, a bit more but it is in much better mechanical shape. It will actually need some minor work as well, mainly key heights/adjustments but all of the pads are new on it. The other definitely needed repadding as well as major keywork.
 

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Discussion Starter · #94 ·
I ended up going another way, I picked up a super 20 466,xxx, a bit more but it is in much better mechanical shape. It will actually need some minor work as well, mainly key heights/adjustments but all of the pads are new on it. The other definitely needed re-padding as well as major keywork.
Oh, that's great. good luck with it.
 

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As in many other parts of this thread I stated that I own a great 460xxx Super 20 with a silver neck. The horn has served me for years. I have always thought I was going to keep it forever but I am looking at the possibility to invest in an overhaul now and maybe buying another , overhauled horn would be a good idea

I was ALWAYS curious about the Super 20 USA TENORS (!!) having had a Super 20 USA alto which was a disappointing and having played a Silversonic USA alto also disappointing.

HOWEVER, I once went to test a Silversonic tenor USA overslung at a shop in the NL. I had my Eastlake 460xxx with me and aside from a little bit firmer action of the USA model, there was no difference to speak of.

Necks could be exchanged but the overslung neck would only operate in the low register (or pushing the first overtone) . Both horns had brazed (soldered on) toneholes. Other small differences (the shape of the left hand table) were minimal.

Now I am about to try (and possibly buy) a SUPER 20 ( looks very nice on the pictures) USA.

The rods and keys of my Super 20 are made of white metal nickel silver , the ones from the USA are brass color (which may be lacquer over nickel silver) and the neck is also brass color.

I don’t suppose the neck is lacquered over solid silver but I am not hang up on that. I have an any type of neck on my Super 20 including a Gloger and found minimal differences between over and underslung solid silver and brass and high density silver copy made by Gloger.

A positive thing MAY be (I can’t remember if the Silversonic had that) the presence of the high F#. I was never entirely happy of the F# sound by combination of keys and even less of the G.

I will report anyway on the findings and if I will end up buying it. I am not sure what to do with the Super 20 Eastlake, which remains one of the best saxophones that I’ve ever played.
 

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As in many other parts of this thread I stated that I own a great 460xxx Super 20 with a silver neck. The horn has served me for years. I have always thought I was going to keep it forever but I am looking at the possibility to invest in an overhaul now and maybe buying another , overhauled horn would be a good idea

I was ALWAYS curious about the Super 20 USA TENORS (!!) having had a Super 20 USA alto which was a disappointing and having played a Silversonic USA alto also disappointing.

HOWEVER, I once went to test a Silversonic tenor USA overslung at a shop in the NL. I had my Eastlake 460xxx with me and aside from a little bit firmer action of the USA model, there was no difference to speak of.

Necks could be exchanged but the overslung neck would only operate in the low register (or pushing the first overtone) . Both horns had brazed (soldered on) toneholes. Other small differences (the shape of the left hand table) were minimal.

Now I am about to try (and possibly buy) a SUPER 20 ( looks very nice on the pictures) USA.

The rods and keys of my Super 20 are made of white metal nickel silver , the ones from the USA are brass color (which may be lacquer over nickel silver) and the neck is also brass color.

I don’t suppose the neck is lacquered over solid silver but I am not hang up on that. I have an any type of neck on my Super 20 including a Gloger and found minimal differences between over and underslung solid silver and brass and high density silver copy made by Gloger.

A positive thing MAY be (I can’t remember if the Silversonic had that) the presence of the high F#. I was never entirely happy of the F# sound by combination of keys and even less of the G.

I will report anyway on the findings and if I will end up buying it. I am not sure what to do with the Super 20 Eastlake, which remains one of the best saxophones that I’ve ever played.
We have two French sayings for this situation: "laisser la proie pour l'ombre" (leaving the prey for the shadow) and "un tien vaut mieux que deux tu l'auras" (what you have now should be preferred to the promise of twice in the future).
 

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true, but I have the chance to try and you don’t try, you will never know

it will cost me a tank of gas (petrol) to know more
 

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I have noticed a difference on the pictures of the late model that I am going to test and that is the left hand palm keys seem to be mounted on a piece of metal (ribbed).

I wonder if there is a way to tell if the metal of the keywork ( rods and levers not the keycups) is nickel silver as the one in my earlier version.

I will test thoroughly

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Interesting, If I ever come across one of thee (never seen one over here) I’ll be very interested to see how it compares to my Eastlake.

The Super 20 USA 800,000 series that I’ve bought was disappointing but who knows... maybe this tenor ( should be pretty much the same) wouldn't be.
 

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I'm not saying that King didn't made any King Super 20 Silversonic w brazed tonholes in 83-84. I believe you. But the information and sales promotion to shops (here in Sweden) from King Musical Instruments Inc, was brochures like this (King Super 20 aka 2414K and 2416K).

View attachment 49214

“...
King Musical Instruments, Eastlake Ohio
March 28, 1985

I am sorry to advise you that we at King are no longer manufacturing tenor saxophones or alto saxophones, and the Super 20 tenor saxophone has been eliminated from our line of saxophones. We only distribute a student model alto and tenor saxophone and these instruments are manufactured for us by our parent company....."



I think that King in this letter may be referring to OTHER saxophones made by a partner or parent company at at some time in the ’80. I don’t think they made the Super 20, even this late.



I think Armstrong may have made this and they may have been also responsible for the differently ( than usual) arched King Solid Silver neck which I bought, and sold, some time ago








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By the way much speculation and annedoctes about the late Super 20 USA ( so NOT the Cleveland or Eastlake marked ones) not having brazed or soldereed on toneholes but pulled.

Well, this is, in all examples that I am watching not the case, time and time again

This is a 1980 silversonic
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