Sax on the Web Forum banner

61 - 80 of 106 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
3,697 Posts
Here is some pictures of my King 2416 tenor.

First off, let me say I LOVE this horn. I paid $500 for it. The original neck sucked. Intonation was horrible, sound was thin and cheap.

I found a Gloger neck made for a MK VI, and everything about the horn changed. Now it has a big robust sound, but still rocks like a King should, and the intonation is spot on, even in the middle C, C# and D notes.

The first picture is the lower stack body hole. The second one is the bell key.
 

Attachments

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2012
Joined
·
2,135 Posts
I'll try to add some pictures of mine, the exterior of the toneholes look very similar to Turnaround's, but they lack the distinct thickness and obvious seam of the first two photos in Soybean's post. The interior angle where the chimney meets the body tube looks pretty crisp, but I just don't see the seam...

Like Turnaround, I'm loving this horn. Of course, I'm still in the honeymoon period with it, but I am a big fan of King's in general. I have no doubt earlier series horns are even better, but for my humble needs, I'm really impressed. Oh, mine also has a high F#, I'm not sure when they added that feature. Perhaps a last ditch effort to keep up with the imports that had taken over the pro market?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
saxophone, flutes and lil' bit of clarinet
Joined
·
7,359 Posts
Discussion Starter · #63 ·
I have no doubt earlier series horns are even better, but for my humble needs, I'm really impressed. Oh, mine also has a high F#, I'm not sure when they added that feature. Perhaps a last ditch effort to keep up with the imports that had taken over the pro market?
I'm not sure the earlier horns were better. But in my limited experience (only played three S20s) it's the necks that were better on the earlier horns. High F# it is on my S20 too. King were trying to compete with Selmer, not the Asian imports. The mechanics of the high F# are not as elegant as Selmer's high F# but it works. My friend calls it a "bolt-on", meaning King didn't change anything else in the design.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2012
Joined
·
7,216 Posts
the exterior of the toneholes look very similar to Turnaround's, but they lack the distinct thickness
Distinct thickness of tonehole chimneys is characteristic of brazed toneholes on Kings
Thinner= pulled tonehole chimneys
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
saxophone, flutes and lil' bit of clarinet
Joined
·
7,359 Posts
Discussion Starter · #65 ·
That's interesting. I'm gonna attempt to measure the thickness on my horn.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2012
Joined
·
2,135 Posts
Distinct thickness of tonehole chimneys is characteristic of brazed toneholes on Kings
Thinner= pulled tonehole chimneys
That's what I was thinking. That coupled with the lack of the fine seam at the base of the interior leads me to think mine are draw/pulled. I'm still hoping to get some pictures added, maybe this evening.

I agree with the way your friend describes the F#, Soybean. It does seem kind of like a bolt-on, but it functions well. In my opinion, King ergonomics were best of the domestic manufacturers. This is such a comfortable horn...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Sorry for reviving an old thread. I just bought a super 20 (engraved so with USA) today and it has serial number 881xxx. Is this an authentic King horn?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
873 Posts
Based on my research, King did away with model names around 790000 and switched to model numbers only.

That said, there's no shortage of possibilities to explain your sax. Could've been engraved by special order, could've been a stash of pre-engraved bells in the factory that got slipped into later production, could've been replaced by a shop later. If it looks like a Super 20, it's probably a Super 20.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
40,336 Posts
Sorry for reviving an old thread. I just bought a super 20 (engraved so with USA) today and it has serial number 881xxx. Is this an authentic King horn?
yes, but part of their less desirable range made not so long before they shut down the company.

The price of this King S20 generation is generally very low. The market doesn’t like them much. The earlier series, engraved with "made in Eastlake", does considerably better on the market. I own a S20 tenor Eastlake and would never part with it.

Not quite so the USA series.

I bought a S20 alto USA and I wasn’t very happy with it on account of its intonation while the manufacture quality appeared similar to my Eastlake . There are many altos ( also Silversonic) of this generation floating in the market, most look pristine and for a good reason, people keep on selling them.

If I ever find a cheap S20 USA I will give it a try because one of my heroes, James Senese, an Italian player, played on one of those throughout the ’80 and he sounded great.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
saxophone, flutes and lil' bit of clarinet
Joined
·
7,359 Posts
Discussion Starter · #70 ·
If I ever find a cheap S20 USA I will give it a try because one of my heroes, James Senese, an Italian player, played on one of those throughout the ’80 and he sounded great.
These can sound great as evidenced by my horn which has served as lead alto in many of the big bands around Los Angeles. Your comments about the market aren't quite the case in my opinion. Unfortunately, all eras of super 20s are hard to sell because they are so expensive.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
40,336 Posts
well, as you know I have been buying and selling saxophones for 10 years so , you will forgive me if I say that I know the market... at the very least on my neck of the woods.

I also see those USA models going cheap elsewhere not only the NL, but if you like them, more fun for you! You can buy them at a pittance sometimes.

Here, they are almost impossible to sell because their potential market is only made of people who prefer other Super 20’s ( Cleveland and a minority of Eastlake connoisseurs , I am one)

Super 20’s are not hard to sell, ...at the right price that is... and here is the root of the problem as I see it...

Some folks bought them at the very top of their price few years ago, they are too expensive now in this day and age and the market is very low for many saxophones aside the “ stars” known by everyone.

I sold several Eastlake at the right price and with not too many problems of course I bought them for even less.

When it comes to the USA models I am never going to burn myself again with one of those. I’ve learned my lesson... the hard way.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
Joined
·
18,497 Posts
I recently completed a 2416 King USA horn, full Overhaul. It actually is an excellent sax. I did not find any poor construction elements, myself. I prefer the pinky table to some earlier S20 tables.
No underslung neck, no double-socket. Honestly, I looked and looked and tried to ascertain soldered vs. drawn holes, then gave up. But the body tube dimensions are the same as the S20 Eastlakes, which are the same as the S20 Cleves. Neck specifications are slightly different (bore/taper) than the Eastlakes (which themselves were slightly different than the Cleves).

But it still has a lotta classic attributes folks love the S20 for: blowing response is excellent, intonation with original neck is right there in the pocket; balance of focus and overtone spread is still absolutely killer- lotsa dark plus lotsa cut; sometimes almost felt like the horn is playing itself.

I did not have benefit of playtesting the 2416 USA side by side with an S20 Eastlake...but IMHO once she was brought up to speed, this 2416 still was pretty slayin'....
 

Attachments

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
40,336 Posts
Interesting, If I ever come across one of thee (never seen one over here) I’ll be very interested to see how it compares to my Eastlake.

The Super 20 USA 800,000 series that I’ve bought was disappointing but who knows... maybe this tenor ( should be pretty much the same) wouldn't be.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
Joined
·
18,497 Posts
I did have to do a total breakdown and refurb, it wasn't playing at all when I got it. But given the hit-or-miss reputation I had read, I am glad I had the opportunity to have one on my bench. These do not have much of a market value in comparison to one engraved S20, but it's a pretty nice Tenor....
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
40,336 Posts
I am very happy with my Eastlake super 20 and I know that James Senese (An Italian player whose videos I’ve published here before), in the ’80 used a Super 20 USA tenor with an over-slung octave and he sounded amazing on that one.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
40,336 Posts
no, it is a USA, there are over 200.000 instruments in between
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
246 Posts
My "King Super 20 USA" (2416K, #871XXX) that I bought new, in March 1983, here in Sweden had drawn toneholes. The neckjoint was too small and I 've seen three other S20 with close serial number here over and thay were also suffering from this. The model name before 2416K was KG 2416 (S) (S= solid sterling silver bell and mouthpipe). The name "Silver Sonic" is not mentioned. These saxes were sold/made when King Musical Instruments, INC also sold "De Ford", "Marigaux" stamped instruments. I'm not saying that my late S20 was a bad horn but the other two S20 I've owned were better. The best one for me was a 66-67 S20. Better for me than the S20 -51 that I had before.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,337 Posts
Since the 615 Model is mentioned within this thread, I'll offer, that as some of you know, I recently bought an acorn engraved early EastLake King Cleveland, Ser.No. C 232XXX, which would give it a build date somewhere in 1966. It definitely has brazed tone holes, top to bottom. Great darkish tone with edge! Nicey focused, as compared to my Vito/YTS-23. (Date of mfg. interpolated from H.N. White Co. Cleveland Model Ser.No. chart '65-'70.)
 
61 - 80 of 106 Posts
Top