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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Thanks for posting that.
 

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thanks, but this brochure doesn't mention the Super 20
 

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thanks, but this brochure doesn't mention the Super 20
I'm not saying that King didn't made any King Super 20 Silversonic w brazed tonholes in 83-84. I believe you. But the information and sales promotion to shops (here in Sweden) from King Musical Instruments Inc, was brochures like this (King Super 20 aka 2414K and 2416K).

kingbrev.jpg
 

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the fact that those horns looked like a super 20 while they were called something else might explain a lot. By the way what I am saying is not referred to silversonics, but also to not silversonic Super 20
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
In case someone can't read Thomsax's attachment, here is what it says:

King Musical Instruments, Eastlake Ohio
March 28, 1985

I am sorry to advise you that we at King are no longer manufacturing tenor saxophones or alto saxophones, and the Super 20 tenor saxophone has been eliminated from our line of saxophones. We only distribute a student model alto and tenor saxophone and these instruments are manufactured for us by our parent company.
 

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That would be when UMI took over, I assume (they being the 'parent company' as of 1985).

Danny Henkin kept Eastlake open and manufacturing until then. This would coincide with what that quote is saying.

(I love the fact that in the 80's the King Baritones still had opposite bellkeys, BTW !)
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·

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anyway regardless of when exactly this happened , 鈥75, 鈥81, 鈥85 at a certain point they are engraved with USA and no longer have the Eastlake Ohio denomination, whatever the significance of this
"Eastlake" disappeared from the King saxes around '74. (Oddly enough, King brasswinds [with one exception] lost it in 1970. Clevelands switched en masse somewhere in there.)

I don't think it has any significance outside of the fact that, from what I understand, marking the city of manufacture on things wasn't in vogue anymore in the '70s. Or maybe 9 fewer letters in the engraving shaved off some cost of production.

In '79 or '80 they generally stopped doing any engraving beyond the King logo and model number across the board. "King Musical Instruments" no longer appeared. The Cleveland name was dropped around this time as well.
 

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In my experience based on few USA altos that I鈥檝e tried, I have concluded that , for my money, I will never consider buying a Super 20 USA while the Eastlakes that I have owned or tried convinced me they have to be among the best misunderstood horns on the market.
 

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photo 1-37.jpg I've just acquired this King 2416 closet horn in immaculate condition. Serial number indicates 1981. It was purchased new by a Philly big band alto player who was asked to play tenor occasionally. He didn't care for tenor and put the horn right back in the case where its been all these years. It has brazed tone holes and labeled USA.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Nice one! good luck with it.
 

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That is awesome, Prof G. Can you verify that all the toneholes are really brazed ?

Because the conception has been that when the model name changed from S20 to 241X, the holes became drawn.

1981 would be after Henkin took ownership, although being so close to that time it could be this body was actually fabricated while under the last days of King Eastlake.
 

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In case someone can't read Thomsax's attachment, here is what it says:

King Musical Instruments, Eastlake Ohio
March 28, 1985

I am sorry to advise you that we at King are no longer manufacturing tenor saxophones or alto saxophones, and the Super 20 tenor saxophone has been eliminated from our line of saxophones. We only distribute a student model alto and tenor saxophone and these instruments are manufactured for us by our parent company.
I am confused. Yes, there is this line which doesn't seems to be part of the brochure, but it is added later on. However, in both of the brochure posted, it refers the 2414 and 2416 as King Super 20 professional model.

The important thing is how do they sound. I read some comments that it sound different from the earlier Super 20. ProfG, can you please share how do you find the sound?
 

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These really ARE Super 20's from what I have seen...why they are sometimes referred to as the 241X line, and why King seems to have stopped using the moniker Super 20, is a bit of a mystery.

the only thing I can figure is that "Super 20" stopped being used when King Eastlake sold to Danny Henkin. Perhaps this was a stipulation ? But I am just speculating.

It'd be interesting to know what was the latest recorded serial # of an S20 (engraved so) which anyone might have seen.
 

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Last month, I was very close to buy a King Super 20 with USA engraving, but I eventually pass on it. It is even cheaper than a early King Zephyr, so, I am very interested to know how these late King Super 20, both USA engraving or 2416, play, and how do they compared to the early King Zephyr and King Super 20 (Cleveland and Eastlake). Any owner out there interested to post some sound clips?
 

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The sax pictured above has a spectacular sound and can be pushed like mad. It has brazed tone holes throughout, as well as a front F and high F#. The serial number is 858XXX. I've played Super 20s and honestly don't hear any difference. I'm trying to get a set of pics posted but I'm pathetic at such things. My files are too big. If anyone can give a little guidance it would be much appreciated. You HAVE to see this horn.
 

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Go to this website:

http://www.shrinkpictures.com/

then shrink them down one at a time there to a 'custom' size (I usually choose 1500px because it is a small enough file for Forums, but large enough to show a good photo).

Then post here.

or you can use a free photo-hosting site like Photobucket and just post a link here, to your album there.

Your news doesn't surprise me much, honestly. I have measured up Cleveland and Eastlake S20's which were 8 years apart and their bodies were identical, it was only the neck specification which changed slightly.

Your reply lends credence to the idea that the soldered holes were only discontinued when Danny Henkin bought the company.....so yours may be one of the very last soldered hole S20's.

Prof G...do you have a set of digital calipers ? or do you have a tech you are friendly with ? I would be really interested in having someone measure up your horn and see how it compares to the numbers I have for the other S20's I have sold.
 

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Last month, I was very close to buy a King Super 20 with USA engraving, but I eventually pass on it. It is even cheaper than a early King Zephyr, so, I am very interested to know how these late King Super 20, both USA engraving or 2416, play, and how do they compared to the early King Zephyr and King Super 20 (Cleveland and Eastlake). Any owner out there interested to post some sound clips?
This guy was selling one for dirt cheap:

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?212814-King-2416-usa-tenor-super-20&highlight=king+2416

The thing with these is...indeed, one can probably own a Super 20 Tenor for around $1000...and what a deal that would be !

I mean, you have people around here selling their crappy, tinny, blinged-out new asian knockoffs claiming to be 'modeled after' the S20....for over $1600-1700.

And these here are the real McCoy for way less !!!?

Thing is, though.... it appears that in this imploded economy.....one cannot TURN or SELL one of these late models, be it engraved S20 or 241X, for more than about $1000-1200. eFlay auctions would indicate this as well. I mean, late '60's Eastlake ones in playing shape go for well under $1900 these days. It only seems to be the Cleveland-made models/Silver neck or Silversonics which have managed to retain and appreciate in value anymore.

So as a flip-horn, probably not gonna be any sort of significant gainer.
 
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