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man, if you got a mouthpiece playing good with a good horn, why fix what ain't broke? it's ok if different pieces play well with different horns. (i don't know what size horn we're talking here, but i got a Buescher pickle that was opened up for a VI soprano, and it's the bomb.)
 

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Somehow, I did not think to try this. Will do and let you know.
I'm actually having a similar problem. I'm using a caravan large chamber mouthpiece on my buffet 400 series alto sax.
My normal C* and selmer concept work fine on this alto and I can hit altissimo and all that just fine but my caravan large chamber seems to drop the second register palm key notes.
I'm unsure what I'm doing wrong
 

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I'm actually having a similar problem. I'm using a caravan large chamber mouthpiece on my buffet 400 series alto sax.
My normal C* and selmer concept work fine on this alto and I can hit altissimo and all that just fine but my caravan large chamber seems to drop the second register palm key notes.
I'm unsure what I'm doing wrong
Can you voice the second octave without using the octave key? If not, that is something to practice.
 
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I'm actually having a similar problem. I'm using a caravan large chamber mouthpiece on my buffet 400 series alto sax.
My normal C* and selmer concept work fine on this alto and I can hit altissimo and all that just fine but my caravan large chamber seems to drop the second register palm key notes.
I'm unsure what I'm doing wrong
I honestly think there is just an acoustical mismatch between certain "French" or modern style horns and large chamber mouthpieces.
 

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What are we considering “large chamber”?

in my experience I don’t have issues with this and I play Link-like pieces like Wanne Ambika or Phil Tone Mosaic. I think smaller chambers can assist with upper register response though, so maybe it just requires more focused air or better voicing on your part?
 

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What are we considering “large chamber”?

in my experience I don’t have issues with this and I play Link-like pieces like Wanne Ambika or Phil Tone Mosaic. I think smaller chambers can assist with upper register response though, so maybe it just requires more focused air or better voicing on your part?
I think what me and zxcvbnm are referring to are the large chamber mouthpieces used by the school of Rascher students in classical playing. Those mouthpieces are insanely large chamber.
 

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In general I don't think the argument that new horns need smaller chambered mouthpieces makes any sense. Otto Links have been selling just fine, the entire time. I don't think any horns were designed specifically to be played with peashooter mouthpieces.
Granted, a Buescher or Caravan have a bigger chamber.

Couple questions, how are your overtones coming out on both horns? Can you hit those palm notes fingering a low Bb? Should be able to play the D and the F with a low Bb. On either horn?

Sorry, I have no idea what level you are. But if you can't get those overtones, I feel like there's at least some chance it's control on your end. Of course, there is a chance there's a mechanical problem with the horn.

Or the mouthpiece isn't pushed in enough. I got a new bari piece and played it for a little while before checking it against a tuner. It was a Benjamin Allen piece with large chamber and almost no baffle. The palm keys weren't coming out well which I chalked up to getting used to the piece. Finally played it with a group and realized I had to push it in way farther than I thought. Once I got it where it should be the palm keys were just fine.

Another simple problem which seems obvious but could have slipped your attention, is the active pip opening? Or clogged?
 

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Acoustically speaking, what is unequivocal is that the mouthpiece volume must mimic the missing volume of the conic apex (where the neck is cut off to give an opening to put the mouthpiece) or the impedances of the tube will be thrown off from the ideal, causing any of a number of intonational problems. Nor is it enough that the volume be correct; the shape also has a bearing on the notes above second octave A, as there is a second order correction having to do with the Helmholtz resonance of the mouthpiece. In practical terms what this means is that the shape of the mouthpiece, even if it is placed on the neck to have the correct volume (and therefore have things in tune overall) can definitely affect the intonation of the highest notes, definitely including altissimos. And it is certainly true that a mouthpiece mismatch can screw up the most careful design of the rest of the air column.
 

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In practical terms what this means is that the shape of the mouthpiece, even if it is placed on the neck to have the correct volume (and therefore have things in tune overall) can definitely affect the intonation of the highest notes, definitely including altissimos.
Yeah, but he's saying the palm keys are sounding an octave down. No? That's not an intonation issue.
 

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Where's our buddy ZXCVBNM to explain...
I thought he meant when he has the octave key down and goes up the horn to play a high D just a stuffy middle D comes out.
I'm having the exact same issue on my Caravan Alto mouthpiece and Buffet 400. It's Undertoning
 

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To clarify on the palm keys, if I finger the palm D, unless I kind of close my throat and using voicing (kind of like for altissimo), the palm D will drop down to how it sounds if the octave key wasn't pressed. Does that make sense?
Ok, to me that means the second octave isn't speaking and he's playing a middle D even though he's got his octave key down. That's not a tuning issue. Or how many cents flat is an octave? 1000? 100? 120?
 

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Ha, but Kingbap, you just made up that word.

So, kingbap, I'll ask you then since you're maybe having the same thing, how are your Bb overtones speaking?
They're going ok, I should probably try again tomorrow with both of my mouthpieces to compare.
 

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It's just my guess if you can pop out a D3 or F3 while fingering a low Bb but you can't play a D3 normally, there is something mechanical going on besides a mouthpiece miss-match.
 

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Ok, to me that means the second octave isn't speaking and he's playing a middle D even though he's got his octave key down. That's not a tuning issue. Or how many cents flat is an octave? 1000? 100? 120?
That has got to be an octave pip issue, the higher one, or an extraordinarily bad embouchure.
 
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