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Seeker Of A Clever Title.
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Has anyone else had trouble getting the palm keys to speak fully when they play a large, barrel chamber mouthpiece on a more modern horn? Is there any good way to fix this? Thanks!

My intuition is that the horn was designed for a mouthpiece which generates much faster moving air at that point in the bore. Maybe some kind of liner could help?
 

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Seeker Of A Clever Title.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I play a Buescher Aristocrat with Buescher mouthpiece, which is fine. The problem occurred with a Leblanc Vito with the same Buescher mouthpiece.
 

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Can you post up a video/audio clip of what is happening? Bonus points if you also post the 'good' result on your Aristocrat

A recording is worth a thousand words...

-j
 

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(...)

My intuition is that the horn was designed for a mouthpiece which generates much faster moving air at that point in the bore. Maybe some kind of liner could help?
It is not the air speed. The phenomenon pertains to acoustics and not aerodynamics. The relevant variable is the distribution of the volume inside the mouthpiece (short and stubby versus more elongated).
However, you are correct in thinking that something that reduces the volume of the chamber might work. If it does, you will have to pull the mouthpiece to be in tune.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It is not the air speed. The phenomenon pertains to acoustics and not aerodynamics. The relevant variable is the distribution of the volume inside the mouthpiece (short and stubby versus more elongated).
However, you are correct in thinking that something that reduces the volume of the chamber might work. If it does, you will have to pull the mouthpiece to be in tune.
I was hoping to not modify the mouthpiece, since I like it very much, but modify the sax somehow. Maybe a liner in the neck or the body?
 

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I’ve found a similar scenario when using an old Conn mouthpiece.
This piece has a massive chamber.
Although I have refaced it and put a decent amount of putty in to raise the floor, it still plays incredibly flat.
If I removed the cork from the neck altogether, I think I could maybe just push it on enough to play in tune.
However it currently plays flat over the whole range of the horn.
I think I may also tend to blow a little flat, which doesn’t help matters.
Definitely no leaks in this horn either.
 

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If you modify the mpc so it plays on the Vito, how will it affect how it plays on your Aristocrat? Assuming you want to use the same mpc on both horns. Frankly I'd just get another mpc unless the problem lies with the saxophone. There's probably much better mpcs out there than the one you're using anyway.
 

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selmer 26 nino, 22 curved sop, super alto, King Super 20 and Martin tenors, Stowasser tartogatos
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You cannot start modifying the bore of the sax without causing intonational, timbre or response issues, if not all three. I agree with MojoBari that most likely the facing curve could use tweaking, but that will change how the mpc plays. I agree again with him to get some chewing gum and try to modify the chamber--most probably in the forward area. I'd try mid-baffle, which will not affect the sound as much as the front baffle, but play around as see what happens if you add material at various points. I'd also like to know what you mean by the palms not "speaking fully". Does that mean that they don't want to sound, or are weak, or what? Not sounding fully sounds to me like they play, but you are not happy with the volume you are getting out of them. What happens if you try to play forte?
 

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selmer 26 nino, 22 curved sop, super alto, King Super 20 and Martin tenors, Stowasser tartogatos
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I’ve found a similar scenario when using an old Conn mouthpiece.
This piece has a massive chamber.
Although I have refaced it and put a decent amount of putty in to raise the floor, it still plays incredibly flat.
If I removed the cork from the neck altogether, I think I could maybe just push it on enough to play in tune.
However it currently plays flat over the whole range of the horn.
I think I may also tend to blow a little flat, which doesn’t help matters.
Definitely no leaks in this horn either.
If your mpc is playing flat you need to reduce the chamber size, right in the back before the throat and the back end of the baffle. You can keep a lot of the characteristic sound and response of the mpc if you add material as far back as possible, not in the baffle area itself. Just keep adding material until it plays in tune. I've modified tarogato mpcs that way and got them up 50 cents in pitch without seriously affecting how they play.
 

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If your mpc is playing flat you need to reduce the chamber size, right in the back before the throat and the back end of the baffle. You can keep a lot of the characteristic sound and response of the mpc if you add material as far back as possible, not in the baffle area itself. Just keep adding material until it plays in tune. I've modified tarogato mpcs that way and got them up 50 cents in pitch without seriously affecting how they play.
Thanks, but the piece was more an experimental thing.
I was aiming to see if raising the floor was a good means of both reducing internal volume and increasing projection.
It had a reasonable affect on projection but less effect on the tuning.
The piece itself was already quite damaged on the tip and was not a piece of any value.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You cannot start modifying the bore of the sax without causing intonational, timbre or response issues, if not all three. I agree with MojoBari that most likely the facing curve could use tweaking, but that will change how the mpc plays. I agree again with him to get some chewing gum and try to modify the chamber--most probably in the forward area. I'd try mid-baffle, which will not affect the sound as much as the front baffle, but play around as see what happens if you add material at various points. I'd also like to know what you mean by the palms not "speaking fully". Does that mean that they don't want to sound, or are weak, or what? Not sounding fully sounds to me like they play, but you are not happy with the volume you are getting out of them. What happens if you try to play forte?
I'd rather not modify the facing or the chamber -- it's my favorite playing mouthpiece and works wonderfully on my Aristocrat.

To clarify on the palm keys, if I finger the palm D, unless I kind of close my throat and using voicing (kind of like for altissimo), the palm D will drop down to how it sounds if the octave key wasn't pressed. Does that make sense?

In contrast if I don't really voice at all on the Aristocrat, the palm D plays the correct note.
 

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It seems I read the initial post wrong.
For some reason I thought the OP said that his horn played flat in the palm keys with this mouthpiece.
Therefore my earlier posts are not really relevant after all.
I will however say that for me it takes more work to voice palm key notes when using very large chamber mouthpieces with low baffles.
 
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