[John Noble Martin]

Hi All,

I’m currently looking for a secondhand large chamber Baritone mouthpiece. Ideally in a 9 or 10 tip opening. It’s for an old 1932 SSS Selmer baritone. Standard length Bergs and even the smaller chamber Lawton’s aren’t practical as they have to be pulled too far out to tune.

The huge pickle-barrel piece it came with sounds and tunes great but is fairly closed so I’m looking for other options. I’m sure a link would work well or even a MC Gregory or one of Morgans MC copies in XL length, Also interested in other pickle-barrel pieces by Woodwind Co, Riffault etc

Do any of you have something that would fit the above description that you would be up for selling?

Very best,

John

 

[vbluesman]

Why don't you send it to one of the mouthpiece refacers that can be found here? If you like it stick with it.

 

[turf3]

The old dill-pickle mouthpieces (not "pickle barrel") are so closed that by the time you open them up you're well into the baffle and you start changing the character of the thing. I'd leave that piece alone and keep it for special applications.

What you need is something like a hard rubber Link or Meyer. In other words, the chamber's about the same size as the cork bore. These are available brand new for reasonable money. Morgan would be a good choice as well (it's basically a Meyer, I believe).

 

[John Noble Martin]

Why don't you send it to one of the mouthpiece refacers that can be found here? If you like it stick with it.

Yeah, that's the first thing I considered but It's the best piece I've tried so far so think it may be better to keep it original for reference for now. I may get some copies made with more open facings though, or find a similar piece to reface.

 

[John Noble Martin]

The old dill-pickle mouthpieces (not "pickle barrel") are so closed that by the time you open them up you're well into the baffle and you start changing the character of the thing. I'd leave that piece alone and keep it for special applications.

What you need is something like a hard rubber Link or Meyer. In other words, the chamber's about the same size as the cork bore. These are available brand new for reasonable money. Morgan would be a good choice as well (it's basically a Meyer, I believe).

Thanks! Good advise. A friend is sending me a few links to try and I'll keep an eye out for Morgans and Meyers

 

[whaler]

I play the original Selmer Table C* that came with an SBA baritone.
‘I been playing a Soloist C** with a Conn 12M a friend gave me.
‘I’ve always had better luck with smaller tips on bari, I guess because I’m used to them. You should see if you could find the Selmer model that was original to your sax or something similar.

 

[madav]

The old dill-pickle mouthpieces (not "pickle barrel") are so closed that by the time you open them up you're well into the baffle and you start changing the character of the thing. I'd leave that piece alone and keep it for special applications.

What you need is something like a hard rubber Link or Meyer. In other words, the chamber's about the same size as the cork bore. These are available brand new for reasonable money. Morgan would be a good choice as well (it's basically a Meyer, I believe).

This is interesting, but if I look on-line I see Meyers described as a medium chamber - or is there a large chamber version available as well?

 

[B Flat]

Is this the same as the other thread you started regarding “large chamber baritone mouthpiece”?

 

[John Noble Martin]

Is this the same as the other thread you started regarding “large chamber baritone mouthpiece”?

Yeah, I think i somehow created a duplicate thread, sorry! There were some really helpful suggestions on the other thread which I can no longer access. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to reply, take notes and say thank you. I wonder if admin can help?

 

[John Noble Martin]

I play the original Selmer Table C* that came with an SBA baritone.
‘I been playing a Soloist C** with a Conn 12M a friend gave me.
‘I’ve always had better luck with smaller tips on bari, I guess because I’m used to them. You should see if you could find the Selmer model that was original to your sax or something similar.

Yes, I'd be interested in trying a long shank soloist but I suspect i'll have the same trouble. An early Selmer (airflow) from the 1930's might work though. The tenor versions I have seen certainly had much bigger chambers. In regards to tip openings I play a 9 on soprano and alto and 10* on tenor. Baritone is a different instrument so you may be right but there's only one way to find out and that is to try both extremes.

 

[turf3]

This is interesting, but if I look on-line I see Meyers described as a medium chamber - or is there a large chamber version available as well?

It just depends on the way one describes chamber sizes. The Meyer chamber is about exactly the same size as the cork bore. The LInk chamber (on hard rubber) is a wee bit bigger than the cork bore, at least on tenor (have not played a Link baritone). Amongst today's mouthpieces those would be called "large chamber" by most. Of course the old old pieces had a bore considerably larger than the cork bore, which by today's standards we might call "very large indeed" and was probably called either "large" or "normal" at the time - again, heavily dependent on who's doing the calling and when.

And the chamber size as relates to tuning also seems to depend on WHERE it's small or large. For example on tenor (because that's where I've tried the most different mouthpieces) it seems that a bit of a squeeze between the walls of the reed window may not have as much effect as the diameter down just above where the neck goes it. But I haven't done the essential thing here, which would be to measure the internal volume of the mouthpiece when in its best in-tune position. So without data, I'm just speculating.

While there are large, medium and small chamber Meyers available for alto (and I believe for tenor), I don't think there is a choice of chamber sizes offered in Meyer baritone pieces.

I still expect that for a 1930s Selmer baritone a Meyer or Link will tune just dandy. Consider that the OP is comparing to a Berg Larsen.

 

[B Flat]

I’m not as certain that a modern link (at least the STM) would tune very well on these horns.
Perhaps it would be fine for the majority of the scale, but I doubt it would work in the palm keys.
The older (Masterlink models) have a true large chamber which is considerably wider than the bore.
More along the lines of the old pickle barrel or whatever you want to call them have.
These type of pieces would be a good starting point.
I’ve had some good success using older hard rubber pieces which have been opened and a modest baffle fitted.

 

[madav]

Well i have the mpc that originally came with my Conn transitional, and the outside diameter and ligature are giant compared to everything else that I have. However tip opening is too small to play, and opening it up would be quite an undertaking - looking at it I think one would have to work from the table and then put an entirely new facing curve on it.

 

[Wonko]

This is interesting, but if I look on-line I see Meyers described as a medium chamber - or is there a large chamber version available as well?

I have a Meyer Baritone Mouthpiece, swapped it (for a Selmer S90) with another bari player that needed a mouthpiece that woud go well with his 12M. I see that it is marked "Medium Chamber". That would suggest that the might also be a large chamber version.
The Chamber is the same size as the bore.
Went searching on Google and found that they have a large chamber tenor mouthpiece: Meyer Medium Facing - Large Chamber (ML) 5 Mouthpiece for Tenor : SaxCompany WebShop
But for baritone there is no large chamber version, only small chamber and medium chamber: Meyer : SaxCompany WebShop

 

[scrollshank]

I will preface this by saying that I have no experience with vintage Selmer baritones. My limited baritone experience is with modern low A models and a vintage Conn (that I own). The Conn was well overhauled by the shop that I bought it from. I initially started with an Otto Link tone edge with a 0.110 tip opening and Java (green box) and rico orange box 2.5. (For reference I play a .076 on Alto and a 0.100 on Tenor). I found that the Conn with a large chamber and large tip opening required air, lots of it. I eventually found an Florida USA STM with an original 5* (measures about .095) and Green Box 3s that is much more comfortable.

There are a lot of variables and where I live it isn't possible to scientifically control all of them, but my take away was that the players from the 30s and 40s that played baritone knew what they were doing when they chose cavernous chambers and microscopic tip openings.

If you have enough breath support to play that kind of tip opening, more power to you, but if not, don't feel bad going with something smaller.

 

[John Noble Martin]

I’m not as certain that a modern link (at least the STM) would tune very well on these horns.
Perhaps it would be fine for the majority of the scale, but I doubt it would work in the palm keys.
The older (Masterlink models) have a true large chamber which is considerably wider than the bore.
More along the lines of the old pickle barrel or whatever you want to call them have.
These type of pieces would be a good starting point.
I’ve had some good success using older hard rubber pieces which have been opened and a modest baffle fitted.

Hi B Flat, yeah I have my doubts too. A friend is sending me two 70's metal links to try (An 8* and 9*) I'll report back. I love master links for tenor but I've note seen a bari one come up yet and I've been watching them for years. The one I have has been opened up to a 9 and it's one of my favourite pieces on tenor

 

[John Noble Martin]

I will preface this by saying that I have no experience with vintage Selmer baritones. My limited baritone experience is with modern low A models and a vintage Conn (that I own). The Conn was well overhauled by the shop that I bought it from. I initially started with an Otto Link tone edge with a 0.110 tip opening and Java (green box) and rico orange box 2.5. (For reference I play a .076 on Alto and a 0.100 on Tenor). I found that the Conn with a large chamber and large tip opening required air, lots of it. I eventually found an Florida USA STM with an original 5* (measures about .095) and Green Box 3s that is much more comfortable.

There are a lot of variables and where I live it isn't possible to scientifically control all of them, but my take away was that the players from the 30s and 40s that played baritone knew what they were doing when they chose cavernous chambers and microscopic tip openings.

If you have enough breath support to play that kind of tip opening, more power to you, but if not, don't feel bad going with something smaller.

Yeah that sounds logical but on tenor i play a huge chamber wood grenadilla piece with a 10* facing and I find it easier to blow than many 7's. I guess there weren't any mouthpieces with really open facings in the 30s and 40s so players just used what was available. Anyway, I completely get your point but my experience has been the opposite on tenor. I find Large tip openings allow much more colour, expressions & flexibility. Let's see if this also applies to Bari...

 

[John Noble Martin]

Well i have the mpc that originally came with my Conn transitional, and the outside diameter and ligature are giant compared to everything else that I have. However tip opening is too small to play, and opening it up would be quite an undertaking - looking at it I think one would have to work from the table and then put an entirely new facing curve on it.

Would you potentially be up for selling it? If so could you DM me some pics please?

 

[madav]

Would you potentially be up for selling it? If so could you DM me some pics please?

Hi John, the Conn is a recent acquisition for me and I am still in the exploratory phase - so at this stage am not quite ready to part with anything until i can nail down a mpc i am comfortable with.. I will however send through a few photos anyway

 

[B Flat]

Hi B Flat, yeah I have my doubts too. A friend is sending me two 70's metal links to try (An 8* and 9*) I'll report back. I love master links for tenor but I've note seen a bari one come up yet and I've been watching them for years. The one I have has been opened up to a 9 and it's one of my favourite pieces on tenor

Yeah the Masterlinks for Baritone are pretty rare.
I’ve managed to get two of them over the years.
One is a Masterlink and the other is a Masterlink 4 Stars model.
Both have been opened by Brian Powell to .105 and .100.
When they do come up they are around the $1000 mark these days.