[Doug Lange]

It’s pretty unreal what kids grow up with nowadays, starting from the baby pics their parents post on Facebook and continuing henceforth. To have every stage of your life documented publicly like that must just be a new way to live if you stop to think about it!

Exactly. My daughter delivered her second child last week. If I want Baby picts, they are all on FB for me to download and I only live 4 miles away!

The broader topic of conversation gets back to the purpose of our forum. For those of us who understand it as a saxophone-culture community of practice focal point for interaction, we will use the amount of decorum expected when in public. For those who only see the forum as a social media platform for them as a consumer and creator, they will not have any expectation of public decorum. It's similar to the local pub. Some are there to interact with friends and acquaintances, others just want a drink and leave. Fortunately, we usually don't see them again.

 

[saxmsy]

Yep. That’s his MO. He’s a royal 🍆 and I’m glad he’s no longer on here.
He’s still pulling the same stunts on Facebook now.
I don’t care how young or supposedly talented he is. There’s no excuse for his kind of garbage.

Fully agree. That is purely ignorance and lack of respect to others. There are many well known refacers that have been in the industry for decades and are still "down to earth" humble. Again people here are too nice to say that behavior is due to "being young". Btw, most of you guys may not know that if you are on student visa in the States (international student for example), you are not allowed to do your own business to make profits (like sell your products or service), unless you get a special work authorization which is very difficult to obtain.

 

[Perio]

Too many are desperate to undermine Kirill. Kirill is very young and very arrogant. I agree that humility is not a trait with which he is blessed.

But frankly, what is wrong with him criticizing another mouthpiece maker’s efforts? Maybe Kirill is correct that Sakshama’s baffle is too high for his playing preference? What’s wrong with Kirill publicly stating this? Maybe the mouthpiece maker in England did a crappy job on the mouthpiece Kirill worked on?

Bill Pierce and Dino Govoni are fans of his. If they are fans, the guy can’t be that bad. Ben Allen told me Kirill knows what he’s doing with mouthpieces. Kirill later complimented on Facebook Ben’s work, so he doesn’t criticize everyone.

Maybe Kirill sees something Sakshama doesn’t. Sakshama came on wining about Kirill publicly shaming him. Perhaps we could see it from that perspective.

 

[ROC]

…desperate to undermine…

Righto, kid 😏

On a more important note…
@Nefertiti keep up the informative and entertaining reviews. Love your work.

 

[Benjamin Allen]

Let’s get real. Kirill is undermining himself by publicly criticizing other mouthpiece maker’s unflawed efforts This has been addressed with him. I don’t have time right now to respond to the rest.

I’m bowing out of this battle. I’ll message Kirill asking him to cool it.

 

[Titorito]

Not only does he question the skills of Ed Pillinger before and now that of Sakshama, on his Facebook page he also ridicules that of Retro Revival and their Double Ring pieces. It seems that he is the only refacer who does his job well. I don't think it's a good attitude on his part.

 

[lukasali]

Not only does he question the skills of Ed Pillinger before and now that of Sakshama, on his Facebook page he also ridicules that of Retro Revival and their Double Ring pieces. It seems that he is the only refacer who does his job well. I don't think it's a good attitude on his part.

Agreed. His reckless bashing of other people in this line of work speaks for itself; he's his own negative press, and that seems like adequate and natural consequences to me.

 

[Sakshama]

Too many are desperate to undermine Kirill. Kirill is very young and very arrogant. I agree that humility is not a trait with which he is blessed.

But frankly, what is wrong with him criticizing another mouthpiece maker’s efforts? Maybe Kirill is correct that Sakshama’s baffle is too high for his playing preference? What’s wrong with Kirill publicly stating this? Maybe the mouthpiece maker in England did a crappy job on the mouthpiece Kirill worked on?

Bill Pierce and Dino Govoni are fans of his. If they are fans, the guy can’t be that bad. Ben Allen told me Kirill knows what he’s doing with mouthpieces. Kirill later complimented on Facebook Ben’s work, so he doesn’t criticize everyone.

Maybe Kirill sees something Sakshama doesn’t. Sakshama came on wining about Kirill publicly shaming him. Perhaps we could see it from that perspective.

Far from desperate. I actually took the bullet and didn't fight back although I measured and play-tested a piece he did a few days before his attack. I would not publicly release my findings about his craft even when his immaturity is begging for it. I think people's reactions to him are much more restrained and measured than he deserves.

 

[jazzdoh]

But frankly, what is wrong with him criticizing another mouthpiece maker’s efforts? Maybe Kirill is correct that Sakshama’s baffle is too high for his playing preference? What’s wrong with Kirill publicly stating this? Maybe the mouthpiece maker in England did a crappy job on the mouthpiece Kirill worked on?

Because there is a conflict of interest from KP by rubbishing competitors and making out he is better, Ed Pillinger has been in the mouthpiece game for decades, if he was bad at what he does he wouldn't be still in business, he is a true master and so if Sakshama, KP has been around for 5 mins.
I also don't think we should forgive him because he is young and I doubt he will get better with age.
I love to see Steve doing his mouthpiece reviews, thank you Steve, but there is part of me that thinks KP shouldn't get a free mouthpiece promotion because of the way he behaves.

 

[Berg-Man]

Far from desperate. I actually took the bullet and didn't fight back although I measured and play-tested a piece he did a few days before his attack. I would not publicly release my findings about his craft even when his immaturity is begging for it. I think people's reactions to him are much more restrained and measured than he deserves.

Very well said, you're a class act and a craftsman.

 

[kraslice soprano]

,

 

[ving]

I don’t get the obsession with making an exact copy. Or replica. Whatever. Who cares? I have seen some of kirill’s posts blasting the retro revival for not having the right specs, etc. he’s entitled to his opinion but it would be much more respectable if he kept those to himself and let his “superior” knowledge and work speak for itself. If there was such a wide variance of different links of the past, why wouldn’t there be similar variance in modern reproductions, copies, replicas, etc? Side note, Kirill sounds great but I’d love to hear him when/if he gets past copying Dexter. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery I suppose?

 

[Saxydude]

But frankly, what is wrong with him criticizing another mouthpiece maker’s efforts? Maybe Kirill is correct that Sakshama’s baffle is too high for his playing preference? What’s wrong with Kirill publicly stating this? Maybe the mouthpiece maker in England did a crappy job on the mouthpiece Kirill worked on?

What's wrong? - most people are way too far in their feelings these days. Reading some of the posts lately on SOTW, it seems that the cry-bullies who lurk around here don't want anyone offering critique, regardless of how grounded, of another person's playing. That now extends to mouthpiece refacers, apparently.

Newsflash: a lot of mouthpiece "refacing" is hokum. And there are a sizable number of mouthpiece "refacers" out there who do a sub-par work but, because it's very trendy right now, are capitalizing. I, too, have played mouthpieces that were worked on by some of the "greats" - some mentioned in this thread - that were underwhelming. Now, I didn't go bashing them publicly because I'm smart enough to know what I don't know, and I didn't know how to fully articulate my issues with the pieces in question. Kirill, on the other hand, probably has the expertise to offer accurate assessments of other refacers work, does so honestly, publicly, and with very little tact, and it isn't winning him any fans. The market will take care of him in that way - or not, if his work is really as good as he claims. Reading this thread you'd think that mouthpiece refacers never duff a rail, or add too much (or not enough) baffle, miss a tip curvature, etc. - even the greats make mistakes (human!).

Newsflash 2: a lot of mouthpiece refacing is opinion. One player's stuffy Link is another's "perfect vintage Link sound." Sakshama's idea of the "right" amount of baffle for a Link or Dukoff is probably different from my idea (or Kirill's, or Mojo's, or Ed's). Separate fact ("this table is uneven, see?") from opinion ("this Link is no good because there's too much baffle").

Final thought: if you put something into the public sphere (your playing, your refaced mouthpieces) you have to expect public feedback that isn't always grounded in reality or fair. If you lack the constitution to withstand internet randos calling your work "crap" or saying "your [sic] a terrible musician," stay home and keep your creations to yourself. Charlie Parker had a cymbal thrown at him! I'm sure if Kirill is as good as he thinks that in 5 years he'll be the only refacer in the business. Somehow I doubt it, though.

 

[Saxydude]

Side note, Kirill sounds great but I’d love to hear him when/if he gets past copying Dexter. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery I suppose?

If you could sound and play like Dexter to the extent that Kirill can, why would you ever want to "get past" it?? 😁

 

[Grumps]

What's wrong? - most people are way too far in their feelings these days. Reading some of the posts lately on SOTW, it seems that the cry-bullies who lurk around here don't want anyone offering critique, regardless of how grounded, of another person's playing. That now extends to mouthpiece refacers, apparently.

That wasn't how I saw it, nor is it really an accurate assessment of the past concern. I saw it as bad form, for someone in the business to crap on another in the business when marketing their wares to the good people here. If it were a member not in the business who posted a genuine critique of a product they've tried, even negative, that wouldn't bother me in the least.

 

[Saxydude]

That wasn't how I saw it, nor is it really an accurate assessment of the past concern. I saw it as bad form, for someone in the business to crap on another in the business when marketing their wares to the good people here. If it were a member not in the business who posted a genuine critique of a product they've tried, even negative, that wouldn't bother me in the least.

I totally agree that it's bad form and not at all how I'd run a business. It's also his prerogative to engage with his audience and greater refacer community in that way and reap the consequences. Calling for his banishment from SOTW and dissuading Steve from posting reviews of his mouthpieces because "iT's pRoMOtIon!" (not you, per se) falls under the "two wrongs" umbrella for me.

Personally, I prefer it when someone who posts a genuine critique of a product has the requisite knowledge to do so. That's why we like Steve's reviews - although I don't know that he's ever played a mouthpiece he didn't like (maybe someone can link me?). The CLB thread saw a lot of the "don't criticize if you can't play as well as him!" mentality - well, now there's a mouthpiece refacer who can both reface AND play and the SOTW community finds a reason to attempt to shut down his critiques, too. SOTW can't just be happy talk all the time - all jazz is great, all mouthpiece refacers are great, all gear is great, all players are great, all advice is great and should be considered equally, etc.

I believe in the triumph of good (hard) work, the best ideas, and helpful spirits - "canceling" not required.

Now. Where'd I leave my pitchfork and torch?

 

[Grumps]

That's why we like Steve's reviews - although I don't know that he's ever played a mouthpiece he didn't like (maybe someone can link me?).

Send him a Zagar. That would be good litmus test.

 

[Nefertiti]

I totally agree that it's bad form and not at all how I'd run a business. It's also his prerogative to engage with his audience and greater refacer community in that way and reap the consequences. Calling for his banishment from SOTW and dissuading Steve from posting reviews of his mouthpieces because "iT's pRoMOtIon!" (not you, per se) falls under the "two wrongs" umbrella for me.

Personally, I prefer it when someone who posts a genuine critique of a product has the requisite knowledge to do so. That's why we like Steve's reviews - although I don't know that he's ever played a mouthpiece he didn't like (maybe someone can link me?). The CLB thread saw a lot of the "don't criticize if you can't play as well as him!" mentality - well, now there's a mouthpiece refacer who can both reface AND play and the SOTW community finds a reason to attempt to shut down his critiques, too. SOTW can't just be happy talk all the time - all jazz is great, all mouthpiece refacers are great, all gear is great, all players are great, all advice is great and should be considered equally, etc.

I believe in the triumph of good (hard) work, the best ideas, and helpful spirits - "canceling" not required.

Now. Where'd I leave my pitchfork and torch?

Here is something I wrote to someone on Facebook who asked a similar question. He said I didn’t write bad reviews because I was too nice of a guy.

'I don't think it is because I am a nice guy though. If a piece doesn't work for me, then I would rather not trash someones company and work just because I couldn't get on with it. I send it back and say it didn't work for me. I have probably sent back 50 mouthpieces or more in the last 15 years that just didn't float my boat. My opinion is subjective though. You know the deal better than anyone. I can play a Link and think it is the greatest Link ever created and someone else could play it and absolutely hate it. When I review a piece, I try to be honest about the good and not so good stuff I see or hear but in the end the sound clip reveals a lot of that. I just recorded a sound clip and listening back, my altissimo G sounded really thin in the recording. I could write "This mouthpiece has a thin altissimo G in the review and no one would buy the mouthpiece but that isn't fair because I probably just didn't play that note as well as I could of. A lot of this is very subjective as you know. I'm fine with being subjective and bringing awareness about products to people and hopefully helping the saxophone community but I'm not ok with my subjective experience hurting a company or craftsman. Maybe even destroying someone's livelihood. Now that I think about it, maybe it is because I am too nice of a guy........."

 

[Dr G]

This thread needs to be split out to "Review of __ mouthpiece" and "Review of _".

 

[pontius]

It is a fact that what works for some players does not work for others. That goes for mouthpieces, reeds, horns. There are more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.

Even 10 vintage links or dukoffs side by side are going to exhibit pretty wide variances in specs. This is what makes it extra grotesque seeing a person make grandiose claims that they know the one way that it is "supposed to be" . Attacking other work as being wrong is even worse.

Oh, and the Dexter curve. Can I get Dexter lungs and dental implants to go with that please?