[Jazzmanic]

I have recently (past couple of years) discovered and fell in love with vintage kohlerts. It start with me finding a Winnenden Stencil in a thrift store. I LOVE this horn, but ergonomically it's a little awkward and there are a few minor intonation issues. I'm willing to work with those issues because the tone is so great, but I was wondering what other options are out there that compare to the Kohlerts that might not have these issues. I'm currently looking for a 55 or 57 tenor (or stencil), or even a Kohlert Winnenden (not a stencil) to see if these issues are any better, but I'm not having any luck, although I will be continue to be patient. But, I was wondering if there are any other horns, modern or vintage, that get a similar tone. I realize those issues are going to be there on almost all vintage horns, but I thought I would see if anyone has had any luck.

I know that Keilwerth was an apprentice to Kohlert, and I've heard a few folks compare the two horns. What are you guy's opinions on this? Maybe it's a german horn thing....what about the Stephenhausers (sp?).

Thanks!!

 

[buddy lee]

I don't think Stephenhauser is a German horn...

 

[tflanster]

I don't think Stephenhauser is a German horn...

Taiwan brand. You can google it. Doesn't make them bad, just not European.

 

[TommyD69]

Like almost all things Germans make... their saxophones are pretty darn good. All horns have quirks and personalities you have to work around/with to get what you want out of them. I cannot speak of comparisons between the German horns as I have one German horn, a France horn and an American horn... all are good in their own right.

I know what you mean about the quirky ergo's... the side Bb on my Kohlert '57 is in a slightly different place than on my Mark VI... It's like riding someone elses bicycle... it feels funny for a little while until you get used to it...

Just keep playing/collecting/enjoying as many horns as you can...

'Tis the season to make a joyful noise unto the Lord... it might as well be with a SAX!

 

[Nevillesax]

I know what you mean about the quirky ergo's... the side Bb on my Kohlert '57 is in a slightly different place than on my Mark VI... It's like riding someone elses bicycle... it feels funny for a little while until you get used to it...
QUOTE]

I had the thumb hook replaced with a modern adjustable plastic one...because the hook is longer the base can be soldered right where the old hook was and now your Bb is in a better place and the right hand more Selmer-like.
I didn't really have a prob with the ergos then except it is pretty hard to get the bell key stack light enough esp the G# and low C#.
My horn had the '58 table though so might be different on the '57.
There's always something on ebay...here's a later one from 1969 (not 1953 as stated in the ad)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boosey-Hawk...782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb9f04886

I have played Selmers all my life and found an easy adaptation to the Kohlert ergonomically...just have to play it for a while. Good luck.

 

[Nevillesax]

....and in Germany...
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Tenorsaxopho...675257?pt=Blasinstrumente&hash=item20c0726279

and here...
http://www.ebay.de/itm/schonste-KOH...112218?pt=Blasinstrumente&hash=item45ff5e479a

 

[Jazzmanic]

Thanks so much for the feedback. I have made a few modifications on the horn that's making it a lot easier to play. Also, just bought a Regent Winnenden, so when it arrives, I'll see how it plays compared to mine. Still on the lookout for a 55-59 tenor though, so keep me posted if you guys see of anything or know of anyone wanting to sell.

Also, someone mentioned a 44 model...I've never heard of that...unless they were talking about the year it was made. Anyone know anything about this?

 

[Jazzmanic]

Just found a 55 tenor in excellent condition!!!! Going to pick it up today!!

 

[sirspinbad]

love my VKS alto,has a very direct powerful sound....ive gone french,as far as ergos,so ive shyed away from the kohlert and keilwerths...but i love the sound and the airflow!!

 

[Jazzmanic]

Yea, the ergos is a litte different, but this 55 i just got plays so much better! The only odd thing is the left pinky table, and I'm getting the hang of that pretty quickly!!! I'm starting to get addicted to these horns...lol. I'm now on the lookout for the 57, 58, and 59 (and possibly a VKS)!!!

But I know what you mean about the french horns, they do feel so much better. I use to have a couple of Mark VIs and they felt great for sure!

 

[Jazzmanic]

Well, I found a 55 and LOVE it!! I'm hoping to also find the 57, 58, and 59 (tenors). So if anyone has a line on where I might by one, let me know!

 

[GT]

Can you tell us what you had to give for the 55?

 

[Jazzmanic]

Paid $800 for it! It had just been repaded/recorked too. It's in very good shape too!

 

[jazzznbluezzz]

I had a Winnenden and a 57 a few years back. Great horns. Although I sold both again.
The Winnenden played and sounded too much like my 10M. And the 57 had a beautiful tone
but had serious intonation issues I could not live with or gig with. Anyway neither of them could
dethrone my Conn. But if you are after a Selmer voiced powerful horn the 57 is it.
However I could never figure out why they called the 57 THE rock & roll horn.
I think the older Keilwerths are in the same ballpark as the Kohlerts although the
intonation issues.

 

[Jazzmanic]

Yea, the intonation issues concerned me for a while, but I've been playing it on some gigs lately in a section and it did a lot better than I expected. I didn't do as much adjusting as I thought I would have to do. I have a yamaha that I play on certain sessions or horn section gigs when intonation is imperative, but I dig the sound of the Kohlert so much more. I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on an SML and/or a Beaugnier....I hear that the intonation on those aren't as bad.
Still looking for a 57, 58, or, 59 tenor...wondering how much better those will play than my 55.

 

[GT]

My 57 needs some attention, but I find that with a large chamber piece, the intonation issues go way down.