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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am in the process of repairing a Kingsor alto sax. I have not worked on one before. There is limited information on the internet about them, so I thought I'd ask here. The horn has some interesting features. It has three register tubes compared to the usual two, rolled tone holes, angular key touches similar to Conn 28M's, the keys had (mostly) conn reso pads with the metal ring inside the pad. Body is Stamped Made in Gemany. Bell is engraved with an Eagle/Raptor of some kind. Key guards are the three legged type ala selmer, but without the adjusting bumper screw in the middle.

So were these horns any good? What can you tell me?
 

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Photos?

Is it Kingsor or Klingsor? I think these might be Richard Keilwerth in origin. Really thick body tube? Huge sound? PM Sax-Ony, he knows an awful lot about these older German horns.
 

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I can answer that....almost definitively, too...

The horn was made by Hammerschmidt.

Helen @ the Bassic Sax Blog is the expert on these. That octave mechanism is a doozy, eh ?

I have an Alto I recently rehabbed...beautiful, dark sounding horn which I had mistaken for an early Kohlert.

No market for 'em, they are very obscure, and oft mistaken for other German makes, including Keilwerth-related....since 95% of 'em are stencils......and I can only say this Alto is pretty good.

I just missed a Tenor on eFlay last week.....I am wondering if Helen actually outbid me on it because (for a tore-up stencil w/ a name nobody ever heard before) I put a pretty good bid amount up there at the end...

Anyway...if your drift is "should I bother ?"....I'd say...yeah, it's worth a rehab; but you probably couldn't get more than 4 or 5 bill$ if you sold it afterward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
yes, you are correct... Klingsor. The horn is a repair for a music store. Just wondering if it is really worth the effort. It looks like it was played a lot due to finish wear, but everything seems to be mechanically pretty good.
 

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Hello. Someone say Hammerschmidt or Klingsor? Check out my Hammerschmidt page on the main portion of my site. It gives you the full history of the brand.

These horns are very inconsistant. Some were great. Some not so much. There's a link on my Hammerschmidt page to my gallery of images. You'll likely find something that looks like the horn you have.

What does the one you have look like? Give me some details, and I'll be able to fill in some blanks for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hello. Someone say Hammerschmidt or Klingsor? Check out my Hammerschmidt page on the main portion of my site. It gives you the full history of the brand.

These horns are very inconsistant. Some were great. Some not so much. There's a link on my Hammerschmidt page to my gallery of images. You'll likely find something that looks like the horn you have.

What does the one you have look like? Give me some details, and I'll be able to fill in some blanks for you.
Wow, what service! Thanks Helen. I was checking your website and Blog last night. Currently the alto I have is disassembled and waiting to be cleanded before swedging and padding... It looks like this horn on your site http://bassic-sax.ca/blog/?p=6120 Gold lacquered finish. I didn't attempt to blow the horn before I tore it down because it was pretty discusting so I don't know if it has potential to be one of the good ones.

The body is in decent shape but the finish is only 60-70% there. It would probably look better stripped to bare brass but I'm not getting paid for that.

Photos Here: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0803/slausonm/Klingsor/
Thanks, Matt
 

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I just missed a Tenor on eFlay last week.....I am wondering if Helen actually outbid me on it because (for a tore-up stencil w/ a name nobody ever heard before) I put a pretty good bid amount up there at the end...
Hey there JaySF, I didn't see this earlier when I posted. No I can tell you for sure I did not buy the horn, or even bid on it. I mention eBay a lot on my site, but I have never bought anything off the auction site, and only even bid on 2 items. (Neither of which I won obviously.) What was the stencil name? I missed the auction completely.
 

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Wow, what service! Thanks Helen. I was checking your website and Blog last night. Currently the alto I have is disassembled and waiting to be cleanded before swedging and padding... It looks like this horn on your site http://bassic-sax.ca/blog/?p=6120 Gold lacquered finish. I didn't attempt to blow the horn before I tore it down because it was pretty discusting so I don't know if it has potential to be one of the good ones.

The body is in decent shape but the finish is only 60-70% there. It would probably look better stripped to bare brass but I'm not getting paid for that.

Photos Here: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0803/slausonm/Klingsor/
Thanks, Matt
You're very welcome slausonm. I finally had a minute to look at the pics of the horn. Too bad it's so pitted. You're right, it would probably look better stripped. Or better yet, with a finish like Gerhard Keilwerth does to his restored horns. Also too bad it's a plain Klingsor, and not one with the acrylic key guards and lots of mother of pearl key touches. I can't tell from the photos, but does it have a front F key buy the way? The most basic model of Klingsor didn't. It also had the least number of mother of pearl keys. There's a member here who has been trying to sell a tenor version like that for quite some time. It is original, and somewhat minty, but no takers. Honestly, I find it funny that a music store would spend the money to restore the one you have. As JaySF said, they'll be lucky to see $400 to $500 for it when finished... That is of course only if the thing plays in tune.

The newer Hammerschmidts (like the one you're fixing up) can have significant tuning issues. Have you read my article about the company's neck redesign? Unfortunately you won't know if this sax is one of those that is affected by this until you have finished your work. Once you go to play it, and you notice that things are not quite right and the horn is out of tune with itself, and then you go about trying to fix the intonation through an adjustment of key heights. When the problems can't be corrected through key height adjustment, then you'll know that you have one of the bad neck horns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Helen,
I read your blog and the tuning issues. It is just a basic horn from what I can tell. It really isn't pitted. The finish is jst off and oxidized where it is bare. I worked in an overhaul shop and would be confident that if this horn was refinished it would look great. ( but not worth the effort)

I am not "Restoring" the horn. I am repadding it. Key swedge and fit, new corks, felts and pads. When they asked me to work on it, I questioned them about the expense and if it was worth it because I had not heard of the sax. I looked at it a little closer and saw the octave vents and some of the other features and said hey this might be an OK horn you better check to see if it is a diamond in the rough. I told them my repad price and they said go ahead.

Thanks for the help!
Matt
 
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