Joined
·
133 Posts
Is there such thing as a replacement neck for a king zephyr baritone? Or is there a neck that is the same size with the correct angle that could be retrofitted onto a king?
King Zephyr bari replacement neck
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Joined
·
43,590 Posts
As usual the best thing to do is to buy one from people whom specialize into perfect reproduction of saxophone necks.
There are no Universal necks (if such thing exists) because the Zephyr or Super 20 has an octave key on the neck itself. You may try to adapt a Buescher or Conn neck that are sometimes offered on Ebay, but the volume, position of the pi and diameter will probably be off.
![]()
The best thing to do is to contact Karsten Gloger in the NL (or Music Medic which I think it is his agent in the US). He has measured hundreds of necks and makes perfect reproductions.
https://www.gloger-handkraft.com/saxneck.htm
It will cost you, depending on material from €350 to €575. Expect a very long wait of a couple of months.
An alternative, quicker (?), source could be in the Netherlands the Blazers Atelier Tilburg they too make reproduction necks.
http://www.blazersatelier.nl/nekken/
There are no Universal necks (if such thing exists) because the Zephyr or Super 20 has an octave key on the neck itself. You may try to adapt a Buescher or Conn neck that are sometimes offered on Ebay, but the volume, position of the pi and diameter will probably be off.
The best thing to do is to contact Karsten Gloger in the NL (or Music Medic which I think it is his agent in the US). He has measured hundreds of necks and makes perfect reproductions.
https://www.gloger-handkraft.com/saxneck.htm
It will cost you, depending on material from €350 to €575. Expect a very long wait of a couple of months.
An alternative, quicker (?), source could be in the Netherlands the Blazers Atelier Tilburg they too make reproduction necks.
http://www.blazersatelier.nl/nekken/
Joined
·
133 Posts
Thanks. I already contacted Gloger. I’m thinking that’s the best option. My concern is measuring it. They sent me a form to fill out. I’m going to ask them if I can send my current neck to them so they can measure it.
Joined
·
2,240 Posts
My first bari was an early 60s Zephyr with a replacement neck and socket grafted on from an 80s UMI horn. An Armstrong I think? It needed to be shortened a bit, but I played that horn for a number of years and really enjoyed it.
There are Chinese necks on ebay with the octave vent, but they are not double socket. Perhaps the seller could also sell you a socket to graft on.
That was fine for a late model that was just a player. I currently have an early 40s military Zephyr that I would probably be more choosy with if it needed a neck. I guess it depends on you end goal?
There are Chinese necks on ebay with the octave vent, but they are not double socket. Perhaps the seller could also sell you a socket to graft on.
That was fine for a late model that was just a player. I currently have an early 40s military Zephyr that I would probably be more choosy with if it needed a neck. I guess it depends on you end goal?
Joined
·
2,240 Posts
What is wrong with your current neck?
Joined
·
133 Posts
The one on top is what’s on there now. The other one is what’s on my new zephyr. As you can see it’s angled incorrectly making it difficult to play. I didn’t realize how uncomfortable it was to play til I got the new zephyr
Attachments
Joined
·
133 Posts
The tech said he couldn';t bend it. He said it looks like someone already attempted that. That would be my preference.
Joined
·
133 Posts
I’ll post a pic of the socket later but I’ve been told the guy did some nice work so I want to just fix the neck part. It could or should make a really nice horn a great one. One that I enjoy anyway.
Joined
·
133 Posts
There it is.
Attachments
Joined
·
20,655 Posts
I have in the past replaced damaged double-socket receivers with traditional ones due to either the receiver having been damaged, the tenon damaged, the double socket wall damaged (or absent), etc....nothing wrong with that repair from a functionality standpoint.
I am simply guessing here that the horn had lost its original neck (or it had been damaged beyond repair) and the owner and owner's tech decided to make a replacement neck, which required removal of the double-socket receiver.
If the neck intones well and sounds good, then it is a success in most respects. The problem here being, the tube has an 'alto' curvature.
Gloger is great , they are gonna be expensive. But definitely worth getting a price and time quote, if for nothing else other than posterity sake. I'd be interested knowin what they charge for a replacement vintage Bighorn neck....
This is where it is worth contacting Curt Altarac at MusicMedic. They have spent a lotta time experimenting with methods of bending/changing neck angles while maintaining the tube shape (i.e. not letting it ovalize or kink).
I think they can do it (perhaps not quite to match the real one's angle, but improve yours considerably). I would guess this would be cheaper than the Gloger alternative...
I am simply guessing here that the horn had lost its original neck (or it had been damaged beyond repair) and the owner and owner's tech decided to make a replacement neck, which required removal of the double-socket receiver.
If the neck intones well and sounds good, then it is a success in most respects. The problem here being, the tube has an 'alto' curvature.
Unless the repairer used an alto neck tube (which again, 'works' from most standpoints).
Gloger is great , they are gonna be expensive. But definitely worth getting a price and time quote, if for nothing else other than posterity sake. I'd be interested knowin what they charge for a replacement vintage Bighorn neck....
Most techs would say they cannot do this. It isn't like there's a standard tool to successfully do this, this is an unusual job. But not impossible, methinks.
This is where it is worth contacting Curt Altarac at MusicMedic. They have spent a lotta time experimenting with methods of bending/changing neck angles while maintaining the tube shape (i.e. not letting it ovalize or kink).
I think they can do it (perhaps not quite to match the real one's angle, but improve yours considerably). I would guess this would be cheaper than the Gloger alternative...
Joined
·
43,590 Posts
The zephyr and super 20 necks are the same ad they are a 90º bend, the other in the picture is not an original neck.
As for how much a Gloger neck cost I’ve answered in my post ^, if you follow the link it brings you to the pricelist anyway
As for how much a Gloger neck cost I’ve answered in my post ^, if you follow the link it brings you to the pricelist anyway
Joined
·
20,655 Posts
Indeedy. Thanks....$630usd....
I think it is fairly hopeful that Curt can change that neck profile for far less than that.
Obviously the end result of Gloger vs. Bending is gonna be vastly different, but if the neck works acceptably well now, it'll work well after the bending.
Your other suggestion is also reasonable - buy an eBay neck, whether new or used - and have your tech swap the tenon from the existing neck to the newly-purchased one.
This is a small roll of dice because as you note the geometry of the original King neck will likely not be spot-on with the eBay one, but as long as the natural pitch of the replacement is in the vicinity of the King neck, and the pip location isn't wildly off....it has a fair chance of working as well.
Blazers shop also interesting, BTW....good to know that someone is offering a Gloger-alternative....
Joined
·
133 Posts
I calculated $380. $600 was for gold plating with diamonds. I’m happy that this looks fixable.
Joined
·
133 Posts
. I can't see on his site how to get one made.
Joined
·
43,590 Posts
you have to get in touch with them [email protected]
http://www.blazersatelier.nl/nekken/ choose the language , that explains what they do
You can't have a precise copy on the cheap, making a neck from scatch requires a lot of work. Bending an alto neck to fit a baritone won't give you the same results of a copy but it will be cheaper, even if MM does the job but will it fit the needs?
Another possibility is sending your neck or precise pictures and measurements to China and have them make you a neck ( there is now a thread about these new company making necks) maybe the will return a good neck for little money , you may wan tto wait until the corona virus passes because at the moment everything is standing positively still with China.
http://www.blazersatelier.nl/nekken/ choose the language , that explains what they do
You can't have a precise copy on the cheap, making a neck from scatch requires a lot of work. Bending an alto neck to fit a baritone won't give you the same results of a copy but it will be cheaper, even if MM does the job but will it fit the needs?
Another possibility is sending your neck or precise pictures and measurements to China and have them make you a neck ( there is now a thread about these new company making necks) maybe the will return a good neck for little money , you may wan tto wait until the corona virus passes because at the moment everything is standing positively still with China.
Joined
·
133 Posts
MM said $480 4 to 6 months. I can send them the neck to measure. I’m ok with that.
Joined
·
133 Posts
Spending less and having it quicker would be nice but I don’t see how I’d save that much buying a neck and having someone do the work to try and fit it.
If that were mine I'd probably do the following:
1) strip all the stuff off it
2) get a piece of tool steel that just barely fits inside the small end, about 2 or 3 feet long
3) Get another ditto that fits inside the tenon end, maybe 8" long
4) cut a piece of hardwood to the desired inner radius of the neck after modification, and then shape a concave form in it like a commercial tube bender but tapered, of course.
5) Grease the whole interior with Krytox grease (high smoke point)
6) Slip the two pieces of tool steel into the two ends of the neck
7) Melt a big batch of the lowest melting point solder I can find
8) Fill the whole neck with the molten stuff
9) Let solidify
10) Clamp the big end and the bending block in a big bench vise
11) Use the long piece of steel to bend the neck down to approx. 90 degrees.
12) Put the whole thing in an oven and melt the solder out
13) Reattach the bits (the tenon might fall off when melting-out the filler metal)
No collapsing of the tubing!
1) strip all the stuff off it
2) get a piece of tool steel that just barely fits inside the small end, about 2 or 3 feet long
3) Get another ditto that fits inside the tenon end, maybe 8" long
4) cut a piece of hardwood to the desired inner radius of the neck after modification, and then shape a concave form in it like a commercial tube bender but tapered, of course.
5) Grease the whole interior with Krytox grease (high smoke point)
6) Slip the two pieces of tool steel into the two ends of the neck
7) Melt a big batch of the lowest melting point solder I can find
8) Fill the whole neck with the molten stuff
9) Let solidify
10) Clamp the big end and the bending block in a big bench vise
11) Use the long piece of steel to bend the neck down to approx. 90 degrees.
12) Put the whole thing in an oven and melt the solder out
13) Reattach the bits (the tenon might fall off when melting-out the filler metal)
No collapsing of the tubing!
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
