[-TH]

I've been listening lots of different alto sax players recently and I always notice the same thing. I like those heavily Cannonball-influenced players (+ Cannonball himself ofcourse). It's the SOUND and the style that I love. That sound is something I'd like to get someday from my alto (I think I'm not alone with this). Cannonball played a King S20, Jesse Davis plays a Zephyr Special and Antonio Hart plays/played a S20. Vincent Herring plays a gold-plate Yanagisawa and Peter King has his own model from Yanagisawa. I hear a very similar sound coming from those Yanagisawa models compared to the original S20. I remember reading somewhere that a gold-plate Yanagisawa is very similar soundwise to the original S-20. What makes the King S-20's sound so special? Big bore or the solid silver neck or what?

The original S-20's are pricey these days and I was wondering what other alto saxs would give me that FAT, singing tone close to the S20.. Few years ago I had a Yani 991 alto with a bronze neck and I think that was the best setup for that kind of sound so far. And I sold that alto!!! I regret that sooooo much.. Since that I have had a Martin Handcraft and a Buescher Aristocrat altos and I can't get close to that sound with those horns..

Maybe I'll have to start saving money for a Yani..

Thanks for reading my rant..

-TH

 

[-TH]

A good example of that sound. Jesse Davis
http://www.amazon.com/First-Insight...848141?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194692443&sr=1-15
Listen to "J's idea" for example.

 

[milandro]

well TH, is not that the Yanis with silver necks and bell/body are exactly cheap(er than a super 20). To me you would be better off buying a Silversonic Alto or at least a Silverneck alto. The Yani is splendid (and Peter King is a master any way) but an original Super 20 would be my choice, anyday. I am saving ( never get to it always spend the money before) to buy a Super 20 alto too.

 

[mlscnr]

And btw, Cannonball played a Mark VI later in his career.

But if you want the King sound on a budget, check out the King Cleveland models from the 1950s and early 1960s. They had the same bore taper as the Super 20.

 

[saxshooter]

I've been listening to a bit of Vincent Herring lately too... he's GOT it. He is heavily influenced by Cannonball, and I found it interesting that he opted for the gold plated Yani rather than the A-9933 which is the silver neck and bell, similar to the King Super 20 Silversonic. Perhaps the choice was partly due to aesthetics (the underslung octave key)? His intonation is very even, which I am sure is partly attributed to the modern Yani. But IMHO, I do not think that the Yani that Herring is playing has the same FAT and spread quality that the S20 has... those that I've heard on recordings, anyway. Anyone else with more hands on experience between the Yani and S20 horns?

 

[Turnaround]

And btw, Cannonball played a Mark VI later in his career.

For about a year or 2 and then went back to the Super 20.

He also started on trumpet (I read somewhere that it was trombone, but I have seen trumpet too many times to be sure), so it may not be the Super 20 or the Mark VI that makes him sound that way.:twisted:

I played a Selmer for 20 years before I had the chance to play a Super 20. Didn't really pay attention to makes and models, just enjoyed playing the horn (man I miss those days). Transcribed a bunch of Cannonball.

Then I got the chance to play a Super 20. It sounded different, and I liked it, and it spurred on many years and too much money wasted on G.A.S.

Ignorance was bliss. (to a certain degree)

 

[SaxyAcoustician]

I really hope you don't think Cannonball's sound was due to his horn. Case in point: Antionio Hart's and Cannonball's sounds are more dissimilar than similar. Cannonball would sound like Cannonball on any horn he played, just like Parker sounded like Parker despite the myriad of horns he's recorded with.

Another case in point: Let's entertain the notion that a particular make and model is responsible for a particular sound. So why do "classical" saxophonists sound so different than jazz saxophonists playing on the same horn? Is it possible that it has everything to do with how the players articulate and phrase? How about classical and jazz (and rock/pop, funk, blues) pianists sounding so different on the same piano?

I've been listening lots of different alto sax players recently and I always notice the same thing. I like those heavily Cannonball-influenced players (+ Cannonball himself ofcourse). It's the SOUND and the style that I love. That sound is something I'd like to get someday from my alto (I think I'm not alone with this).

Let me help you out here. Transcribe his solos. Play them over and over until the notes are under your fingers. Then play along with Cannonball over and over. Then record yourself and listen. Do this over and over. Don't expect it to happen in days. Think years. And when I say over and over I mean hundreds if not thousands of times. You think the pros don't do it this way? If it was easy you'd already be sounding like Cannonball.

After this tedious exercise you'll sound like Cannonball no matter what horn you play on.

I remember reading somewhere that a gold-plate Yanagisawa is very similar soundwise to the original S-20. What makes the King S-20's sound so special? Big bore or the solid silver neck or what?

So the gold plating on the Yanagisawa is somehow responsible for its supposed similarity to the Super 20? What a joke. Already, it's clear what you read is bogus. Ignore it.

The original S-20's are pricey these days and I was wondering what other alto saxs would give me that FAT, singing tone close to the S20..

No saxophone make or model will guarantee you that sound. The only thing that will get you that sound is instilling that concept of sound in your head and heart. Like I alluded to above, the "secret" is in how you blow air into the horn and articulate every note and phrase.

Few years ago I had a Yani 991 alto with a bronze neck and I think that was the best setup for that kind of sound so far. And I sold that alto!!! I regret that sooooo much.. Since that I have had a Martin Handcraft and a Buescher Aristocrat altos and I can't get close to that sound with those horns..

Why would you sell a horn that "was the best setup for that kind of sound so far"? I just don't understand.

Keep your Martin and Buescher for now. No one said you couldn't sound like Cannonball on those horns. If you don't sound like Cannonball, blame your practice (habit and methodology), not the horn.

 

[Adderleysfasthands]

dude i think you should be more focused on buying a old New york meyer
tbh even though they are expensive, thats what adderley used for most of his career

a player will sound the same on different horns but not the same on different setups

adderleys

 

[Turnaround]

And that won't just grant you the sound you're looking for. Been there done that. I got the closest sound to what I was after with a $100 mouthpiece and an understanding refacer, and learning about 30 Cannonball solos by ear.

 

[saxphil]

Hear,hear Saxy Acoustician!
there's no easy ride

 

[SaxyAcoustician]

I got the closest sound to what I was after with a $100 mouthpiece and an understanding refacer, and learning about 30 Cannonball solos by ear.

1%: $100 mouthpiece
99%: learning about 30 Cannonball solos by ear

That about sums it up.

 

[bfoster64]

By this reasoning you should get a $50 chinese alto, a $1500 vintage Meyer, and start transcribing. Good luck with that. I'd sell the Buescher and Martin and get a Yani or S20, since those seem like better horns for you. And I don't think you need a vintage Meyer for that sound you're after. You just need a good mouthpiece.

 

[Tryptykon]

Vince Herring sounds nothing like Cannonball .

nothing like him.

I know, I know, he played with Nat in a tribute band, as a tribute to Cannon.

I understand; he is often written about as being influenced by Cannonball.

Cannon's hallmark is his phrasing and articulation as well as his tone.

Cannon's phrasing and articulation is a world apart from Vince's.

Different vibrato, too.

Cannon is Cannon and Vince is Vince.