Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
38,865 Posts
You don’t say whether you are looking for a tenor or an alto or even a baritone?

Assuming that you are looking for a Tenor neck.

The one I sold recently ( solid silver made for a late ’80 horn) was approximately 27,5mm (you have the socket so you can measure that) and fitted my Eastlake (1970) S20.

Of course if your horn was made for the overslung neck you will have an octave prong to activate the overslung neck different from the underslung set up.

I don’t have any suggestion for an alternative neck. I would stick to a Gloger neck (the best reproduction necks around, other people make necks that are no reproduction).




When I had a ’80 alto with the original overslung neck ( which , in my opinion showed intonation problems) I wanted an underslung neck , secretly hoping that the intonation would go magically better.

I bought a Yanagisawa 65 and had it adapted to the horn.

Intonation was different but still no good . Swapping necks hoping that they would fit or do anything positive is a chance game and the combinations and permutations are such that the lottery (involving money) odds don’t seem too bad compared to this.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
38,865 Posts
then you don’t have any more chances than getting in touch with Karsten Gloger because he will be of of the very few people able to manufacture a copy.

The problem with baritone necks is even greater than any other neck replacement.

The length, volume and taper of the many brands varies greatly and the presence of absence and its position of a neck octave mechanism and pip makes using a generalist donor (aside from Selmer clones) almost impossible


 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
38,865 Posts
are they going to be baritones too?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
TENOR, soprano, alto, baritone
Joined
·
7,432 Posts
If it has the octave key on it like posted above, it does complicate things. The 'Super 20' baritone was simply a King baritone with cosmetic touches to resemble iconic Super 20 features. Notice the handmade brass wire bell key guard made to resemble the stamped one on the other saxes. The point is, the neck was the regular King baritone neck except some were in silver. I'd say a silver Super 20 baritone neck would make hens' teeth seem plentiful but you might be able to find a brass one from the other bari.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,679 Posts
...stick to a Gloger neck (the best reproduction necks around... Swapping necks hoping that they would fit or do anything positive is a chance game and the combinations and permutations are such that the lottery (involving money) odds don’t seem too bad compared to this.
I’d give myself a set amount of time to find a neck and if nothing shows up, get a Gloger. Or you might find a intact Zephyr bari which would in all likelihood fit and often go fairly inexpensive esp if needing an overhaul.
I once had to wait five years for a Zephyr bari neck to show up for sale.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
38,865 Posts
then you will have two horns and one neck (I have been there!).

I have never seen a King Super 20 without the octave key on the neck.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Logician
Joined
·
25,985 Posts
i just want to know what size a 1980 super 20 series 6 neck is.
Mind if I ask why?

1) Is it because you have such a horn and it's missing a neck?
2) Is it because you're contemplating purchasing a horn that doesn't have a neck, or comes with a mismatched neck?
3) Is it because you have such a horn with its original neck and you want to experiment with others?
4) Or is it some other reason?

If it's one, good luck. You'll have a hard time finding a matching neck for a bari of this vintage, and crafting one will be expensive. If it's two, DON'T BUY IT. If it's three, don't waste your time. If it's four... do tell.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
Joined
·
17,986 Posts
If it has the octave key on it like posted above, it does complicate things. The 'Super 20' baritone was simply a King baritone with cosmetic touches to resemble iconic Super 20 features. Notice the handmade brass wire bell key guard made to resemble the stamped one on the other saxes. The point is, the neck was the regular King baritone neck except some were in silver. I'd say a silver Super 20 baritone neck would make hens' teeth seem plentiful but you might be able to find a brass one from the other bari.
King I believe only made Zephyr and S20's. The S20 is not exactly a dressed up Zeph because the bellpiece has same-side bellkeys, while the Zephs maintained split-bell keys throughout its life. Also, the S20 low C# hole is differently placed than the Zephs. So right there we know both bellpiece and bow are different between the two - thus it is arguable to call them the same design, really.

Also, the Zeph necks were double-socket, while it appears the S20 necks were standard socket.

Attached is a pic of each. I have not uncovered, on-line, any S20 Bighorn necks which was double socket.

i just want to know what size a 1980 super 20 series 6 neck is.
Saxesarecool - a word of advice: you seem to have a penchant for buying up old horns, cheap...some of which are incomplete, others of which are very old and absent of the full contingent of typical keywork.

These are cheap for a reason. Neckless horns are quite difficult to match a neck to. Especially a Baritone (Tenors and Altos a bit easier). Thee are a lot of variables beyond just Tenon Diameter which have to be taken into account, as noted by others. Neck length, neck taper, the neck's 'natural pitch' (a function of internal volume), the octave pip location, and whether the octave key mechanism will work with the mechanism of the body being the most notable.

After acquiring one, tech alterations may be required (expanding/compressing or even replacing a tenon, modifying an octave key and saddle, moving an octave pip, possibly even cutting or extending a neck pipe).
The other alternative is a custom neck made by Gloger or the like.
The last is of course an original....

ANY of those options are costly...we are talking a good $400+ for a custom neck, $250 for an extensive tech mod, and about the same or more for an original factory neck. Again, less so with Alto and Tenor where you have a better shot of buying a contemporary cheapie asian neck (AFTER you have determined a 'natural pitch' match) and with some tech tweaks come out with an acceptable match for around $100-150.

Just a word of advice. I buy neckless bodies somewhat often, but I have the shop and tools to do the mods necessary to get them to work, so I don't have to pay an outside professional. Most folks do not have a tooled shop, however....thus they may well find the cost of the replacement neck ends up matching or exceeding the purchase cost of the neckless body.

With all of THAT said..IF you weren't expecting to have to shell out $400-ish for a replacement neck.....based upon LOOKS alone...those cheapie asian Bari necks on eFlay DO seem to be generally in the neighborhood of what an S20 neck LOOKS like...as far as octave assembly and pip location. So, IF you can find a tenon diameter on one of those cheapies which is within around .25mm of your body...and has a neck tube which appears LONGER or EQUAL to the tube length of an original S20 neck....you would be rolling the dice, yes - but it would at least be a somewhat informed roll of the dice.

Again, the problem is....Baritones react to non-original necks in a more dramatic way than many smaller horns. So the result may end up being the neck is great for the lower registers but doesn't maintain decent intonation as one plays higher - or vice versa. Or it may be the horn intones pretty well up and down the registers but there are two or three notes in there which are just OFF, OFF...and will really always be with that neck.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2015-2017
Joined
·
3,252 Posts
I actually convinced one of the eBay Asian neck retailers to make me a custom neck based on my dimensions. It is rather good, but MP picky.

Not that any of this is a great idea ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
143 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Mind if I ask why?

1) Is it because you have such a horn and it's missing a neck?
2) Is it because you're contemplating purchasing a horn that doesn't have a neck, or comes with a mismatched neck?
3) Is it because you have such a horn with its original neck and you want to experiment with others?
4) Or is it some other reason?

If it's one, good luck. You'll have a hard time finding a matching neck for a bari of this vintage, and crafting one will be expensive. If it's two, DON'T BUY IT. If it's three, don't waste your time. If it's four... do tell.
i bought the instrument and it doesnt have a neck. #1
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Logician
Joined
·
25,985 Posts
i bought the instrument and it doesnt have a neck. #1
Yeah... well... unfortunately, you're going to have to learn the hard way. Seek out the neck makers/specialist for the numbers you seek. They often keep records of sizes of previously fabricated necks they've matched for clients in the past, and aren't always members of the community here.

Good luck.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
Joined
·
7,131 Posts
I actually convinced one of the eBay Asian neck retailers to make me a custom neck based on my dimensions..
that is amazing. Was it expensive?
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top