[wackymadi]

Hi,

It has been over 10 years since I have picked up my saxophone and I want to get back into playing it. It is a King 613. It looks like the serial number is N208187. I have read that the quality of the King saxophones depend on what year they were made. I'm trying to figure out if this is a good beginner's sax or if I am better off buying one.

It was my dad's old saxophone (he isn't around to ask about it) and I have no idea what year it is from or if it is a good quality saxophone.

Attached are photos - hopefully someone can give me some advice.

Thank you!

 

[milandro]

Hello, Kings 613 ( alto) and 615 (tenor) are the more modern version of the Cleveland model.

They have a SN different from the other Kings and this may have been made in the ’70.

They are not bad horns at all beut they sell normally for very little money, in the NL they are very difficult to sell and exchange hand for € 2 or 300, a shop may sell them for €800.

The quality of a saxophone doesn’t bear a direct relation with the year they were made but people , generally, tend to favor certain years for certain models. This isprobably not the case with this, a student model, which stayed a good performer throughout its life.

Again, the market for these is pretty low but that doesn’t mean they are bad, btu simply that they aren’t wildly popular. I tis a good beginner sax provided that it is in working order, if you spend €500 on an overhaul here you really can’t pay more than €200 to make it worth your while, with €800 you would buy a near pristine example of the same (with a little patience), maybe from a shop.

 

[bruce bailey]

That serial number should be from about 1966ish. In good shape pad wise, it should be a good horn.

 

[JayeLID]

They have a SN different from the other Kings and this may have been made in the '70.

BINGO.

THIS is a Henkin-era King...1980's actually.....it is NOT a King made in Eastlake. Despite it being called the 613, it is NOT a Cleveland 613 of the variety made by King in Eastlake from '67-79.

The N serial # , plus the high number...denotes a Conn fabrication under Henkin, it is therefore likely to be either the same horn as the Conn 18M or Conn 20M. It could be Mexico-made, although is more likely US made.

Are they bad ? No, they aren't bad. I mean, not a bad starter horn. They are a pretty obscure model, they weren't around for more than maybe 4 or 5 years, so people aren't very familiar with them.
Modern ergos, pretty well-built.
They don't sound all that good. I mean, not like an older Cleveland 613. The body specs bear zero resemblence to an older 613. This was a new design employed by Henkin, who discontinued the 50M "Shooting Star" alto when he took over and replaced it with the 18 and 20M's.
But they do have the modern keywork and are fairly user-friendly.

I, for one, would choose a 'real' King 613, before King was bought-out, rather than one of these. But again, they don't s#ck by any means.

Their market values are incredibly LOW...in US, I doubt someone could sell one in playing shape for more than $300usd if bought used.

Is it worth investing maybe $150-175 of servicing if needed, to make it play well ? I'd say, yes...since you have it, and since it was your Dad's. It'd serve a beginner well if put into good tack.

 

[wackymadi]

Thank you everyone!

 

[Stocker]

As Jaye mentions, this is actually a re-branded Conn 18M from 1985. When Dan Henkin bought King Musical Instruments from Seeburg, the Cleveland-designed saxes were discontinued and replaced with Conns. They didn't last long - King saxophones were discontinued completely after Skåne Gripen took over.

 

[Maboe]

Hello, I apologize for taking advantage of this Thead. I am quite recently engaged in my hobby "The saxophone" and it is all new to me. Is it common if I also have a question about a King 613 in this session or do I open a new one?
I have the same question regarding an Alto King 613. The engraving is different from that of the Wackymadi instrument. No crown, but U.S.A in the engraving.

 

[milandro]

Hello, I apologize for taking advantage of this Thead. I am quite recently engaged in my hobby "The saxophone" and it is all new to me. Is it common if I also have a question about a King 613 in this session or do I open a new one?
I have the same question regarding an Alto King 613. The engraving is different from that of the Wackymadi instrument. No crown, but U.S.A in the engraving.

I applaude you for continuing a older thread, keep things where they are is the best way to keep information available in one place.

They are cheap but good horns, they generally cost very little. They were meant as a student's horn .

 

[Maboe]

Thanks Milandro for the quick response.
I read about the King instruments on Wikipedia. Do I understand correctly that this King 613 is from the period of UMI? (from 1985) so after the period of Daniel J. Henkin.
I have the feeling that this King 613 is not older. Am I wrong?
I don't have an American saxophone yet, only a number of French, two Belgian and one Dutch.
Is this King 613 Worth 200 euros?
I can place new pads myself if necessary.

 

[milandro]

I am not sure of which period this “ clownface guard” ( nickname) was but I see plenty of them around in the NL, they are normally datable from the late ’70 or the ’80 (which is pretty old, methinks)

€200 is pretty much the price they go for, so yes, certainly,. They are good players although they are not Zephyrs or Super 20. I owned a 615 it was very nice.

Not all Dutch Schenkelaars were, by the way, in fac “ Made” (whatever they meant) in Holland, they had bought lots of horns from Germany, Italy, Japan...

 

[JayeLID]

Hello, I apologize for taking advantage of this Thead. I am quite recently engaged in my hobby "The saxophone" and it is all new to me. Is it common if I also have a question about a King 613 in this session or do I open a new one?
I have the same question regarding an Alto King 613. The engraving is different from that of the Wackymadi instrument. No crown, but U.S.A in the engraving.

That is a 'real' 613...as opposed to the rebranded Conn 18M of the original thread. A late King Cleveland 613, basically...they had dropped the "Cleveland" model moniker by then.

Made in Eastlake probably mid-late 1970's. It is NOT an UMI model. It was make by King at Eastlake OH before King was bought out in 1980 by Dan Henkin.

Good horn, considered a student horn but much better sounding and better built than most of today's student offerings (IMHO I'd rather play one of these than a Yama 23....they just have more soul, better tone, and feel more substantial).

A good horn to start out on when you have a limited budget (it should not cost more than around $450usd in good playing condition If it does NOT play decently, IMHO....200 euros is a bit high a price for it. Here, in US, one needing substantial pad work can be acquired for $125-150usd).

So, given vintage american horns in Europe tend to be a bit more expensive than here...I would say 170 euros if it needs pad work is a fairer buying price than 200....

 

[Maboe]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and clear advice, I will make an offer and have to wait until October 4 for the result. With best regards.

 

[JayeLID]

Why Oct. 4 ????

 

[Zephyrwolf]

I sold one of those very recently Maboe. I think they are very respectable horns. As my SOTW name suggests, I am partial to King. Even the King branded mpc that came with it was decent.

 

[Maboe]

The king 613 is for sale at a auction where you can place a bid until October 4.

 

[Always_Learning]

The king 613 is for sale at a auction where you can place a bid until October 4.

Good luck with the Auction Maboe!